{"id":4346,"date":"2022-04-25T03:46:26","date_gmt":"2022-04-25T08:46:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/?p=4346"},"modified":"2022-04-25T11:54:58","modified_gmt":"2022-04-25T16:54:58","slug":"traveling-universe-bill-summers-ii","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/traveling-universe-bill-summers-ii\/","title":{"rendered":"Traveling the Universe: A Conversation with Bill Summers (Part Two)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>Our conversation with Bill Summers (part one available <a href=\"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/traveling-universe-bill-summers-i\/\">here<\/a>) continues with a further discussion on the Headhunters, how percussionists are often treated differently, the symbolism behind bat\u00e1 drums, and why &#8220;Latin rhythms&#8221; is a mischaracterization. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>PostGenre: Do you feel the emphasis many put on the bottle part on &#8220;Watermelon Man&#8221; minimizes your contribution to <em>Head Hunters<\/em> (Columbia, 1973)?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Bill Summers: Well, months after we finished recording the album, it came out. It only had four tracks &#8211; \u201cChameleon\u201d, \u201cWatermelon Man\u201d, \u201cSly\u201d, and \u201cVein Melter.\u201d But the album started selling like crazy. I had no idea it would become one of the highest-selling jazz albums in history. My late wife at the time looked at the credits and got angry because I wasn\u2019t mentioned as an arranger even though I helped write the music. So, despite all the proceeds earned on record sales, I never received full credit. Everyone on the record got a writing credit except me. <\/p><p>I went to Herbie and asked why I did not get a credit. He told me that it was because I was \u201cjust a percussionist.\u201d That\u2019s not to knock Herbie, but that was just the state of affairs across the board in music. There is a lack of respect for percussionists and what I do. Even when I go to a soundcheck, they check everybody &#8211; keys, bass, vocalists, whatever &#8211; and then ask me to play only last, if at all. <\/p><p>And, even if I am asked to play, the guy from the booth may tell me to just \u201cplay my toys.\u201d When they do, I will ignore the request until someone comes on stage and asks me to play my toys and I have to tell them I don\u2019t have toys, they\u2019re real instruments. It is particularly incredible where it is a band I am the leader of, and I was the leader of the Headhunters. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"lyte-wrapper fourthree\" style=\"width:420px;max-width:100%;margin:5px;\"><div class=\"lyMe\" id=\"WYL_C8hi3ZnhFac\"><div id=\"lyte_C8hi3ZnhFac\" data-src=\"\/\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/C8hi3ZnhFac\/hqdefault.jpg\" class=\"pL\"><div class=\"tC\"><div class=\"tT\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"play\"><\/div><div class=\"ctrl\"><div class=\"Lctrl\"><\/div><div class=\"Rctrl\"><\/div><\/div><\/div><noscript><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/C8hi3ZnhFac\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/C8hi3ZnhFac\/0.jpg?resize=420%2C295&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"YouTube video thumbnail\" width=\"420\" height=\"295\" \/><br \/>Watch this video on YouTube<\/a><\/noscript><\/div><\/div><div class=\"lL\" style=\"max-width:100%;width:420px;margin:5px;\"><\/div><figcaption><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n<p><strong>PG: Why do you think people disrespect percussionists as you describe?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>BS: I don\u2019t think they even know they are disrespecting me. I think they have no idea and aren\u2019t doing it on purpose. They are just ignorant. Part of it is just educating people on the power and importance of my instruments. I make it very clear to people not to call my instruments toys.<\/p><p>Herbie, one of many people I could use as an example, had to learn his lack of respect for what I was doing. He didn\u2019t even know he was disrespecting me. You can\u2019t get mad about someone\u2019s ignorance. Instead, you try to educate them and give them some knowledge that they can pass on to the next person. And hopefully, some of the younger guys coming up will learn respect in the process. <\/p><p>As far as royalties specifically, it was incredible how many people sampled that version of \u201cWatermelon Man.\u201d Madonna took the masters solely to use the whistle parts. Her song ended up selling millions of copies. But, I didn\u2019t get the credit to which I was entitled. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"lyte-wrapper fourthree\" style=\"width:420px;max-width:100%;margin:5px;\"><div class=\"lyMe\" id=\"WYL_zCdFmukkILs\"><div id=\"lyte_zCdFmukkILs\" data-src=\"\/\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/zCdFmukkILs\/hqdefault.jpg\" class=\"pL\"><div class=\"tC\"><div class=\"tT\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"play\"><\/div><div class=\"ctrl\"><div class=\"Lctrl\"><\/div><div class=\"Rctrl\"><\/div><\/div><\/div><noscript><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/zCdFmukkILs\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/zCdFmukkILs\/0.jpg?resize=420%2C295&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"YouTube video thumbnail\" width=\"420\" height=\"295\" \/><br \/>Watch this video on YouTube<\/a><\/noscript><\/div><\/div><div class=\"lL\" style=\"max-width:100%;width:420px;margin:5px;\"><\/div><figcaption><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n<p><strong>PG: It is pretty messed up that you did not get credit for your work.&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>BS: It\u2019s not screwed up. The reality is that if I had been well schooled, I would never have been abused. It was my fault that it happened. You never really learn about the business side of music when you are a fairly young musician. <\/p><p>But I\u2019m also no victim. Once it happened, I learned my rights and became my own counsel to protect myself. I went to the books to learn everything about the legal side of publishing, songwriting, and the rest. I learned how to make sure, going forward, that I was fairly compensated. Ultimately, I take responsibility for what happened with the credit on \u201cWatermelon Man.\u201d If I had done my homework, it would never have happened. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>PG: Going back to a statement you made a little earlier about the lack of respect often afforded percussionists, do you feel the royalty situation would have developed differently if you were, say, primarily a horn or piano player?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>BS: Of course. <\/p><p>I mean, I do play saxophone and flute and did so in many bands before I became a professional percussionist. When I was in the Bay Area, I was often hired because I could do more than one thing. So, I\u2019ve played flute, piccolo, and all the saxes. And I could play them very well. <\/p><p>When I was 19, I was working at the Apollo Theater. At the same time, I was both playing sax and flute with a band and percussion with Bobby Womack. One day I was on stage with Bobby Womack.  When I got off stage and went to the back room to get my horns, I found that they were all stolen. Every last horn I had was gone; about $20,000 worth of stuff. <\/p><p>I easily could have gotten angry; angry at someone for taking them or even at myself for not keeping them safe. But what\u2019s the point in beating myself up when I\u2019ve already had a loss? So, instead of getting angry, I took it as a sign from God that he wanted me to be a percussionist. And, since then, I\u2019ve focused primarily on percussion. Sometimes blessings come from your hardest hits. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"lyte-wrapper fourthree\" style=\"width:420px;max-width:100%;margin:5px;\"><div class=\"lyMe\" id=\"WYL_f_kX5LT_Kc0\"><div id=\"lyte_f_kX5LT_Kc0\" data-src=\"\/\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/f_kX5LT_Kc0\/hqdefault.jpg\" class=\"pL\"><div class=\"tC\"><div class=\"tT\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"play\"><\/div><div class=\"ctrl\"><div class=\"Lctrl\"><\/div><div class=\"Rctrl\"><\/div><\/div><\/div><noscript><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/f_kX5LT_Kc0\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/f_kX5LT_Kc0\/0.jpg?resize=420%2C295&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"YouTube video thumbnail\" width=\"420\" height=\"295\" \/><br \/>Watch this video on YouTube<\/a><\/noscript><\/div><\/div><div class=\"lL\" style=\"max-width:100%;width:420px;margin:5px;\"><\/div><figcaption><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n<p><strong>PG: Speaking of connecting to God through music, the press materials for <em>Forward Back Vol. 1<\/em> (Ropeadope, 2022) indicate that Leon Thomas was the one who introduced you to the history of religious and spiritual drumming&#8230;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>BS: Actually, that\u2019s not true. I read that recently as well, but it\u2019s a limited history. Don\u2019t get me wrong, Leon Thomas was an influence, but it was mostly because of two guys he had in his band at the time- Sonny Morgan and Richard Landrum. They both played percussion with Leon, and I had met them in San Francisco when I came to visit. I found that these guys were also both involved in playing bat\u00e1 drums and doing ceremonies. I was extremely intrigued by their use of bat\u00e1. Richard took me under his wing and taught me many things. Leon was involved because Richard was in Leon\u2019s band; that\u2019s the connection. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>PG: Each of you the three bat\u00e1 drums on <em>Forward Back Vol. 1<\/em> are said to represent the father, mother, and child. Could you elaborate a little further on that aspect of the drums?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>BS: Sure, let me educate you on that. We play three drums. All three drums &#8211; the iy\u00e1 ilu, the it\u00f3tele, and the ok\u00f3nkolo &#8211; are membranophones meaning that each end of the drums has a skin stretched over them. These drums lay across your lap, or you stand up and play them. You play them horizontally, not vertically. Since there are two heads on each drum, you end up with six surfaces. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"lyte-wrapper fourthree\" style=\"width:420px;max-width:100%;margin:5px;\"><div class=\"lyMe\" id=\"WYL_EYKVCkV7n6c\"><div id=\"lyte_EYKVCkV7n6c\" data-src=\"\/\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/EYKVCkV7n6c\/hqdefault.jpg\" class=\"pL\"><div class=\"tC\"><div class=\"tT\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"play\"><\/div><div class=\"ctrl\"><div class=\"Lctrl\"><\/div><div class=\"Rctrl\"><\/div><\/div><\/div><noscript><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/EYKVCkV7n6c\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/EYKVCkV7n6c\/0.jpg?resize=420%2C295&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"YouTube video thumbnail\" width=\"420\" height=\"295\" \/><br \/>Watch this video on YouTube<\/a><\/noscript><\/div><\/div><div class=\"lL\" style=\"max-width:100%;width:420px;margin:5px;\"><\/div><figcaption><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>The first drum is called the iy\u00e1 ilu. In Yoruba, \u201ciy\u00e1\u201d means \u201cmother\u201d and \u201cilu\u201d means \u201cdrum.\u201d So, the iy\u00e1 ilu is the \u201cmother drum.\u201d Usually, the iy\u00e1 ilu is played by the guy who knows the most. The middle size drum is called the it\u00f3tele, or the father drum. The smallest of the three drums is the ok\u00f3nkolo, which represents the child. <\/p><p>Every rhythm that is played is initiated by the mother drum. The father responds. The two never step on top of each other. They don\u2019t argue; they converse. Their relationship sends a message on family structure. Any young man who learns to play these drums learns that the mama is in charge of everything. The mama is the most significant part and it is also the lowest drum. It is significant that of all the drums, the mama drum is the one played by the master. All of that means a lot. <\/p><p>Young Black men who are now in prison may not be there today if I could have shown them the message behind these drums. The message explains family structure while stressing that you are responsible for your actions. You also must show a degree of respect. Seniority is very important in learning these drums as well. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>PG: So, the drums themselves emphasize family and can be used to build community. You were also on Gary Bartz\u2019s <em>Music is My Sanctuary<\/em> (Capitol, 1977) which emphasizes using music to find a protective space. Do you think the aspects of music that provide personal peace are also the same that allow one to help others and grow and develop community?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>BS: All music that I have ever played professionally has something to do with that kind of training on the drums. I think everything I\u2019ve ever played on any record will reflect those messages.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"lyte-wrapper fourthree\" style=\"width:420px;max-width:100%;margin:5px;\"><div class=\"lyMe\" id=\"WYL_0-Y4kA9u2EQ\"><div id=\"lyte_0-Y4kA9u2EQ\" data-src=\"\/\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/0-Y4kA9u2EQ\/hqdefault.jpg\" class=\"pL\"><div class=\"tC\"><div class=\"tT\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"play\"><\/div><div class=\"ctrl\"><div class=\"Lctrl\"><\/div><div class=\"Rctrl\"><\/div><\/div><\/div><noscript><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/0-Y4kA9u2EQ\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/0-Y4kA9u2EQ\/0.jpg?resize=420%2C295&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"YouTube video thumbnail\" width=\"420\" height=\"295\" \/><br \/>Watch this video on YouTube<\/a><\/noscript><\/div><\/div><div class=\"lL\" style=\"max-width:100%;width:420px;margin:5px;\"><\/div><figcaption><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>Gary was someone I liked a lot. Orrin Keepnews brought me together with him. Orrin owned several jazz labels &#8211; Riverside, Prestige, and others- and had the largest jazz catalog on the planet. Orrin became like an uncle to me, and I am very indebted to him. In addition to putting me in touch with Gary, Orrin set me up with some other great people. I\u2019ve recently finished my memoirs, which will be published soon, and there is a whole chapter on Orrin and the people I met through him. <\/p><p>Another good example is that, through Orrin, I was able to work with McCoy Tyner, Freddie Hubbard, Hubert Laws, Bobby Hutcherson, Stanley Clarke, and Jack DeJohnette on an album called <em>Together<\/em> (Milestone, 1979). Meeting Gary came through Orrin as well. As far as specifics about Gary\u2019s record, I haven\u2019t heard it in years. I really should go back and revisit it, but I just don\u2019t remember a lot of specifics. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"lyte-wrapper fourthree\" style=\"width:420px;max-width:100%;margin:5px;\"><div class=\"lyMe\" id=\"WYL_YTEk2UrZYdg\"><div id=\"lyte_YTEk2UrZYdg\" data-src=\"\/\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/YTEk2UrZYdg\/hqdefault.jpg\" class=\"pL\"><div class=\"tC\"><div class=\"tT\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"play\"><\/div><div class=\"ctrl\"><div class=\"Lctrl\"><\/div><div class=\"Rctrl\"><\/div><\/div><\/div><noscript><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/YTEk2UrZYdg\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/YTEk2UrZYdg\/0.jpg?resize=420%2C295&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"YouTube video thumbnail\" width=\"420\" height=\"295\" \/><br \/>Watch this video on YouTube<\/a><\/noscript><\/div><\/div><div class=\"lL\" style=\"max-width:100%;width:420px;margin:5px;\"><\/div><figcaption><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n<p><strong>PG: The bat\u00e1 is often associated with Cuba. Do you feel your group, Los Hombres Calientes gave you a deeper understanding or appreciation of Latin rhythms?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>BS: No, no, not at all. It ain\u2019t Latin. The music ain\u2019t got shit to do with Rome. I\u2019m just saying that Latin is a Roman-based concept. You have the Romantic languages- Portuguese, Spanish, Italian &#8211; which are based on Latin. What I do is not Latin. <\/p><p>Let me give an example. There is a rhythm called clave. That rhythm is originally from Africa but has become a central part of Cuban music. Clave can also be found in Puerto Rican or Dominican music. The music we label as salsa or Latin jazz are both clave-based. And, so, they all come directly from West-Central Africa. Period. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-4-3 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"lyte-wrapper fourthree\" style=\"width:420px;max-width:100%;margin:5px;\"><div class=\"lyMe\" id=\"WYL_F84TaHFfIj8\"><div id=\"lyte_F84TaHFfIj8\" data-src=\"\/\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/F84TaHFfIj8\/hqdefault.jpg\" class=\"pL\"><div class=\"tC\"><div class=\"tT\"><\/div><\/div><div class=\"play\"><\/div><div class=\"ctrl\"><div class=\"Lctrl\"><\/div><div class=\"Rctrl\"><\/div><\/div><\/div><noscript><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/F84TaHFfIj8\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/F84TaHFfIj8\/0.jpg?resize=420%2C295&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"YouTube video thumbnail\" width=\"420\" height=\"295\" \/><br \/>Watch this video on YouTube<\/a><\/noscript><\/div><\/div><div class=\"lL\" style=\"max-width:100%;width:420px;margin:5px;\"><\/div><figcaption><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\"><p>This is not about race, it is just about facts. There was a white ethnomusicologist named Arthur Morris Jones, who I respect a lot. Jones had a series of books called \u201cStudies in African Music.\u201d In them, he talks about a certain rhythm and refers to it as the African signature tune. If you play the rhythm enough times, it matches the clave. All of the music I play is based on that African signature tune rhythm. All of it. We just have to redefine certain things and rewrite some history because it\u2019s been messed up for far too long.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><em>Forward Back Vol. 1<\/em> is now available on Ropeadope. It can be<\/strong> <strong>purchased <a href=\"https:\/\/forward-back.bandcamp.com\/album\/volume-1\">on Bandcamp.<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Our conversation with Bill Summers (part one available here) continues with a further discussion on the Headhunters, how percussionists are often treated differently, the symbolism behind bat\u00e1 drums, and why &#8220;Latin rhythms&#8221; is a mischaracterization. PostGenre: Do you feel the emphasis many put on the bottle part on &#8220;Watermelon Man&#8221; minimizes your contribution to Head [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":4347,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"iawp_total_views":129,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[582],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4346","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interviews"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/ScreenShot2021-11-01at8.17.17PM.jpg?fit=1248%2C832&ssl=1","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/peRkRR-186","jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":4311,"url":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/traveling-universe-bill-summers-i\/","url_meta":{"origin":4346,"position":0},"title":"Traveling the Universe: A Conversation with Bill Summers (Part One)","author":"Rob Shepherd","date":"April 16, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"The obsession of many in the music industry to categorize art frequently overlooks the shared tree upon which so many \"styles\" branch. In reality, so much of today's music, including \"jazz\", \"hip hop\", \"R&B\" and \"rock\" reach back to tried and true concepts and ancient rhythms. On Forward Back, Vol.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Interviews&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Interviews","link":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/category\/interviews\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/ScreenShot2021-10-29at1.57.41PM.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/ScreenShot2021-10-29at1.57.41PM.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/ScreenShot2021-10-29at1.57.41PM.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/ScreenShot2021-10-29at1.57.41PM.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":5207,"url":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/roots-infinity-harrison-i\/","url_meta":{"origin":4346,"position":1},"title":"Roots to Infinity: A Conversation with Donald Harrison, Jr. (Part One)","author":"Rob Shepherd","date":"November 14, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"While the history of improvised music is replete with works of artistic brilliance, such recordings seldom reach outside the confines of their usual audiences. It is not merely difficult but near impossible for improvisation-laced instrumental music to resonate with the larger popular culture. But there are always exceptions. One of\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Interviews&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Interviews","link":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/category\/interviews\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/bill-mike-donald-standing-credit-michael-weintrob.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/bill-mike-donald-standing-credit-michael-weintrob.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/bill-mike-donald-standing-credit-michael-weintrob.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/bill-mike-donald-standing-credit-michael-weintrob.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":4481,"url":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/undercurrent-laswell-ivarsson-i\/","url_meta":{"origin":4346,"position":2},"title":"Undercurrent: A Conversation with Ulf Ivarsson and Bill Laswell (Part One)","author":"Rob Shepherd","date":"May 24, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"One could cogently argue that Bill Laswell is the epitome of an artist unconfined by genre norms. As critic Chris Brazier correctly noted, \u201cLaswell\u2019s pet concept is \u2018collision music\u2019 .. bringing together musicians from wildly divergent but complementary spheres and seeing what comes out.\u201d The output of Laswell\u2019s first major\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Interviews&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Interviews","link":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/category\/interviews\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/BillLaswell_UlfIvarssonPhotoYokoYamabe1.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/BillLaswell_UlfIvarssonPhotoYokoYamabe1.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/BillLaswell_UlfIvarssonPhotoYokoYamabe1.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/BillLaswell_UlfIvarssonPhotoYokoYamabe1.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/05\/BillLaswell_UlfIvarssonPhotoYokoYamabe1.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":4217,"url":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/peaks-valleys-michael-leonhart-ii\/","url_meta":{"origin":4346,"position":3},"title":"Peaks and Valleys: A Conversation with Michael Leonhart (Part Two)","author":"Rob Shepherd","date":"March 23, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"For the second part of our conversation with Michael Leonhart on The Normyn Suites (Sunnyside, 2022), we discuss Elvis Costello, the Avant-Garde, scoring Red Dead Redemption II (Rockstar, 2018), and how the beauty of \"Catharsis\" with Bill Frisell came to life. Check out part one here. 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Some even step aside and retire entirely. Wadada Leo Smith takes the opposite approach. Over the past year, Smith has been perhaps more productive than ever. 2021 has found him behind a 3 CD solo trumpet\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Interviews&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Interviews","link":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/category\/interviews\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/12\/Splash_Wadada_Trumpet_B_01-1200x800-1.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/12\/Splash_Wadada_Trumpet_B_01-1200x800-1.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/12\/Splash_Wadada_Trumpet_B_01-1200x800-1.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/12\/Splash_Wadada_Trumpet_B_01-1200x800-1.jpg?fit=750%2C500&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4346","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4346"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4346\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4360,"href":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4346\/revisions\/4360"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4347"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4346"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4346"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/postgenre.org\/staging\/4567\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4346"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}