Finding the Common Denominators: A Conversation with Patricia Brennan on ‘Breaking Stretch’

Often, one of the first things a young child learns about a band is that it divides into sections. Horns lead the melodies and craft harmonies, while percussion and bass provide a rhythmic backdrop. However, this segregation of instrumental voices relies on a deeply flawed premise built upon oversimplification. Is a tongue hitting a reed or the patter of fingers on keys not rhythmic? If the instruments in the so-called rhythm section make tones, cannot they produce melody or harmony? In reality, most instruments are closer in concept than they seem. Remember, piano great Cecil Taylor saw his instrument as essentially “eighty-eight tuned drums.”  It is in accenting commonalities and moving beyond preconceptions of sound in which Patricia Brennan’s Breaking Stretch (Pyroclastic, 2024) thrives.

Brennan is no stranger to shattering preexisting notions about an instrument. Across works under her own name and those as a side-person – supporting Mary Halvorson, Alan Braufman, Matt Mitchell, and Tomas Fujiwara, among others – she has established herself as a figure at the forefront of expanding the vibraphone’s range through electronic effects. She also often moves her mallets to the marimba, an instrument common to Western classical music but more arcane in improvised music circles. Brennan’s sonically wide scope was especially well-presented on More Touch (Pyroclastic, 2021). On that album, alongside drummer Marcus Gilmore, bassist Kim Cass, and percussionist Mauricio Herrera, she artfully blends hues of sounds from the conservatory, the streets of her native Port of Veracruz, Mexico, mystical soundscapes, and more. The broad range was accomplished by essentially creating a uniquely orchestrated percussion ensemble joined by bass.

Breaking Stretch pulls these ideas further by augmenting the quartet with three horns – trumpeter Adam O’Farrill, tenor saxophonist Mark Shim, and alto/sopranino saxophonist Jon Irabagon. Brennan’s composition pushes each band member to the outer edges of their capabilities on their instruments. The enlarged ensemble provides the leader additional freedom to find new ways to redefine and shift roles. “Palo de Oros (Suit of Coins)” starts with a lyrical solo by Cass that underscores the rich tones of the upright bass in a way that, at times, makes it sound more like the lower notes on a guitar. At about the two-and-a-half-minute mark, the horns join with a frenzied pattern that – ignoring timbre – could easily be heard as a drum cadence. The breakneck tempo of the piece consistently builds tension until releasing into firey solos by O’Farrill, Irabagon’s sopranino, and Brennan’s vibes bending and shifting to and fro. With “Earendel,” the group evokes the desolation and majesty of its namesake – the earliest and most distant known star – by minimizing clearly defined melody in favor of mood and feeling. Brennan’s whirs and O’Farrill’s blasts of notes meet an impending slow-moving bassline to suggest the mystery of the unknown.

While also full of nuance, Breaking Stretch is perhaps best heard when blasted loudly, to surround yourself with the distinctive environment Brennan creates. The album is a thoroughly fascinating listen that further cements the leader as a composer to watch.

PostGenre: What made you decide to expand your quartet into a septet?

Patricia Brennan: It came partly from the concept of expansion, which is one of the main ideas of the record. With Breaking Stretch, we are expanding on More Touch‘s concept of exploring rhythmic possibilities and using an ensemble almost like a giant percussion instrument. With this album, I wanted to keep exploring that idea, but in an even more expansive manner. My first record [Maquishti (Valley of Search, 2021)] focused on exploring that concept in a solo setting. More Touch expanded it to a quartet. And Breaking Stretch expands it from there. Especially with the addition of three horns, I have an ample palette to explore sonic ranges and textures. I also use the horn players as percussion instruments as well. 

PG: In terms of using the horns as percussion instruments, the “Breaking” in the album’s title comes, in part, from how the recording pushes the technical and sonic limits of each instrument. Did that aspect of the work make it difficult to compose parts?

PB: No. One thing that’s crucial about this record is that when I was writing the music, I was working with those particular musicians in mind. I knew their capabilities. I also knew how far I could push their limits. So it wasn’t necessarily more difficult to write in that sense. It actually gave me more purpose. For example, the song “Mudanza,” takes more of an orchestral approach. With that song, I was trying to recreate a large brass ensemble but with three horns. 

PG: How did you do that?

PB: One of the things I did was to deeply explore the extreme ranges of the instruments. For example, Jon Irabagon is such a great multi-reeder, so I put him on the sopranino saxophone.  The sopranino gives me an extended range already, but even with that instrument, we were trying to push it. It’s the same thing with Mark [Shim], who has a great sound on the lower end of the tenor saxophone, and I used that to my advantage. I thought about those elements when I wrote the music. Same thing with the rhythmic aspect. Those three guys [Marcus Gilmore, Mauricio Herrera, and Kim Cass] can do anything rhythmically. The musicians I worked with made it a little easier to write.

PG: Since you focused on the instruments’ extreme ranges, did you encounter any practical difficulties in executing your vision?

PB: Well, there was always the question of whether I was writing something not doable. But I like to be in communication with everyone I am working with as I write music. I wasn’t necessarily constantly communicating with the horn players, but we did stay connected. 

Before the recording, the group rehearsed for eight hours a day for three days. Then we had a mock performance that almost became like a workshop where we explored the material and got to see what’s possible or how we can make it possible. Additionally, Adam [O’Farrill] and I had a session, just the two of us, where we ran through the music and talked about how to make the execution of the music more feasible. It was a similar situation with Jon Irabagon. With Mauricio – though he’s not a horn player – he is an expert in African music, and I am not.  We got together and worked to design his part because, in that tradition, there are no compositions in a time signature like 5/4. He had to adapt, create a new language based on his expertise, and combine that language with the rhythmic skeleton I had already written. 

PG: In general, how do you get your compositional ideas? Tracks on the album are inspired by Aztec mythology, poems, sculptures, and stars. It is a pretty broad range.

PB: Yeah. Ever since I was a composition student, I’ve always wanted to test myself with different approaches that would push me to think outside the box. As a composer, I’m trying to create new ways to generate raw material and work from there. Of course, being aware of more traditional approaches is important too. For example, “555” is a Blues tune that gradually starts to disintegrate. I combine it with more traditional compositional forms or approaches but add another element that allows me to come up with new rhythmic skeletons.

Inspiration comes from everywhere, but it’s also all very personal. It is all connected to my life experience, and this record particularly has many elements that connect to who I am. There’s a lot of numerology – the references to the number five-  connected to my Zodiac sign and aspects of constellations connected to my Zodiac sign. 

PG: You are drawing connections to your Zodiac sign. You also have a song named “Five Suns” and another called “Earendel,” which is named after a star.  Where does the space theme fit into the work? 

PB: I’m fascinated with astronomy. For me, constellations and all those aspects connect to the mathematical approach – I take inspiration from shapes as well- that is reflected in my composing. But since I was a kid, I have been fascinated with astronomy. I think with this record it just felt appropriate to use as that inspiration because it’s also connected to the Zodiac and numerology aspects. 

PG: Going back to the size of the group on Breaking Stretch, do you see your next project being an even larger ensemble? Your first album was a solo project. Then came the quartet. Now a septet. Are you doing an octet or nonet next?

PB: [laughing] Yeah, I’m actually working on it now. It’s a nonet. Well, it is a quintet with a string quartet added. 

PG: Wow. 

PB: On that project, I’m continuing the same general idea as on this record. The content I’m working on now also uses constellations as the main source of raw material. The idea of playing with the expectations of the roles of instruments is central to both projects. There are certain things all instrumentalists are expected to do musically based on tradition. Horn players are often expected to be soloists or play the melody. I always want to challenge those concepts and change things up a little. So, with the septet, I have things like the first violin providing more of a rhythm section or bass role. 

PG: Playing with those roles also allows the band to sound like an even larger ensemble. When you were starting to work on Breaking Stretch, did you always intend for it to sound like a group larger than seven musicians? 

PB: Yes. With the ensemble on Breaking Stretch, from the beginning, I was constantly trying to work with the idea of expansion and creating the illusion that the group is a big band or an orchestra. There are even some aspects influenced by big band writing. But I think, even with my solo record, I have always been obsessed with trying to make things sound different than they actually are. On my solo record, there is a piece where I was trying to make my vibraphone sound like four organs playing together in a church. 

PG: Since you mentioned having an orchestral sound, you have indicated in other interviews that when you grew up in Port of Veracruz [, Mexico], there seemed to be a cultural divide between the music of the streets and that of the conservatory. Do you see much of a separation of those two categories today? 

PB: No, and I never really thought about them as two different things. For instance, improvisation. Improvisation, for me, was present in both a Cuban band that I would play and also when I was trying to play a piece in the style of Chopin or whatever. 

Common denominators are always there, no matter the style or tradition. If you put on the radio, what makes you move your head or tap your foot to what you hear? I feel those are the elements that we can all connect to. Since I was a kid, I have been fascinated with that idea. I think instinctual elements, groove, and rhythm are all very embedded in all of us. I call those elements common denominators from all styles of music, and they can bridge any gap. They are what make us react to music regardless of the style. I often try to find those elements that could connect all different styles and put them all together into one piece. Those common denominators are one of the things that motivate me with my music. 

PG: Do you feel your use of effects pedals helps with that integration, too, because they widen your range? 

PB: The effects came from my wanting, as a percussionist, to have access to more sounds than were naturally doable on the vibraphone. Years ago, I started thinking about the sounds I wanted to make on the instrument and made a list of all the things I thought of that could produce a different sound. I could use a binder clip or hit the bar with my fingernail and get different sounds. But certain sounds truly were impossible without effects. One perfect example is that by itself the vibraphone is so limited to only three octaves, and it always annoyed me that I couldn’t access other registers. So, one of the first pedals I got was the Digitech Whammy pedal, which allows me to expand the range of the instrument, both lower and higher. The pedals are just another tool for me; another instrument to help me achieve that illusion of expansion in music. I also use pedals to provide texture like shimmering or crystal breaking. 

PG: Your parents are computer engineers and had an electrical parts store. Do you feel that background made you a little more receptive towards incorporating effects into your music? 

PB: Absolutely. I grew up around old computers, perforated cards, and things like that at my house. Also, my mom eventually changed her profession to be an electrician. She would build transformers, and I was always attracted to that aspect of mechanics or more non-organic things. So, electronic effects were a natural thing for me to explore. However, my motivation in using effects was focused on how to get sounds I couldn’t otherwise. Integrating effects is a fun process, but I always try to keep in mind the goal of getting the sound I’m looking for, rather than getting lost in the mechanics. 

PG: Of course, the vibraphone itself already has an electrical component. The instrument also has a long history in jazz. But you additionally play the marimba, which doesn’t seem to have as deep of a history in jazz music. Do you have any sense as to why that history is not as expansive? 

PB: Yeah. So, the marimba is a great topic to talk about because before I became a jazz musician, I was a classical percussionist, and marimba was one of my specialties. I was doing marimba competitions. I was a marimbist before I played the vibraphone.

But one of the first records I ever listened to was Bobby [Hutcherson] doing free improvisation on the marimba. When I heard it, I was like, “What? What is happening?” [laughing]. Coming from the marimba tradition, there is a whole different approach to that instrument compared to the vibraphone. A lot of that is common sense – different material, different responses, etc. I wanted to bring the marimba into the jazz tradition but bring the instrument as it is; not something that I would be approaching the same way I would a vibraphone. I wanted to focus more on the instrument itself and what sounds I was going to get out of it and let that influence the way that I improvise on the instrument.

And that’s another thing, too. I try to use a concert marimba, which is more commonly used in classical music or other traditions. It goes to a very low C, and I can use it. But, for me, approaching the marimba more from the tradition that has already been established for the instrument rather than just thinking it is the same as the vibraphone is very important. It’s very similar to how I use the pedals- there is a specific purpose I am seeking in using them as well. My concern is the grander goal that I’m looking for and trying not to get lost in the technicalities of the process, which is easy to do. 

There is a reason I sometimes do a lot of chorales on my records; it is one of the key aspects of the language of the marimba. Not so much within jazz, but they are one of the things that marimba can do very well. I always like to incorporate that and make the marimba sound almost like an organ. There’s a beautiful sound that you can get from a five-octave instrument. 

PG: So, with the marimba, you are effectively crossing over ideas from classical to jazz. You also have a duo called Talmanti with Sylvie Courvoisier, who often examines the space between jazz and Western classical music. How did that project come together? 

PB: The duo with Sylvie is very special to me. When I was studying improvisation at the beginning of my career, Sylvie was one of the first people that I listened to and felt was trying to approach her instrument in the same way I am mine, in terms of focusing on the sounds you can get out of the instrument and the possibilities of the instrument. And she’s constantly challenging herself. She challenges the limits of the instrument, the limits of what she can do on the instrument, and so on. She has been a huge inspiration to me. 

Sylvie and I had the chance to work together a few years ago. I had always wanted to do a project with her, no matter what it was. I played in her quartet with Dan Weiss and Thomas Morgan, and the way she explained the group to me is that it was essentially a duo between the two of us, with the rhythm section added as support. When I had an opportunity to do another project, I wanted to try to do something with her and thought about what she said and how we would sound as a duo. There’s also a history of vibraphone and piano duos in the jazz tradition, and I wanted to continue that, as well. Ultimately, I wanted to do something that would combine her language with my own. 

PG:  Getting back to Breaking Stretch, “Sueños de Coral Azul” is partly a reflection on your immigration to the United States twenty years ago. At this point, when you are putting things together musically, do you keep in mind whether an idea is coming from something you heard back in Mexico or since coming to the States, or do ideas more organically come to you?

PB: It’s kind of organic. As I said earlier, a lot of the things on this album are very personal. When I wrote that song, I was reflecting on the fact that I’d been here [in the United States] as long as I had lived back home. That has been messing with me a little as far as my identity. I’ve been asking all those questions about where I am really from. Am I not Mexican anymore? “Sueños de Coral Azul” is my use of music as a way to express that. 

The song is an interesting thing because it doesn’t have a particular form to it. It almost feels like you’re passing by. In a sense, within that journey, some aspects reflect on my story. I can feel my time at home, surrounded by loved ones. Then the song moves to when I moved here with just one suitcase, didn’t know anyone, and felt truly alone for the first time. That was kind of a scary feeling, and I wanted to put some of that in that piece. Then a time came when I was OK being by myself, which is where my solo comes into the piece. But in the song, when everybody else comes back in, it reflects the people who came into my life during the twenty years that I lived in the States. Now, I’m back to a place kind of where I was back home, with loved ones around me out of new friendships and new relationships. I feel at home in New York. And that is why the piece ends similarly to how it began. So, the song was a way to express that journey, while coming from a very true place. Those are the emotions that I’m feeling right now. I’m still asking myself those questions, for which I don’t have an answer. Hopefully, someday I will.

‘Breaking Stretch’ will be released on September 6, 2024 on Pyroclastic Records. It can be purchased on Bandcamp. There will also be a Bandcamp listening party at 6:00 PM EST on August 29, 2024, which you can RSVP for here. More information about Patricia Brennan can be found on her website.

Photo credit: Frank Heath