Constructing Sound: A Conversation with Tomeka Reid on ‘3+3’

Joann Wolfgang von Goethe once remarked, “Music is liquid architecture; Architecture is frozen music.” But the philosopher is hardly the first to notice the shared facets – terms rhythm, texture, harmony, and proportion – between musical and physical blueprints. Some architects have attempted to examine their works’ connections to music. With 3+3 (Cuneiform, 2024), cellist Tomeka Reid shows how the influence between music and architecture flows both ways.

To fully appreciate 3+3, one should consider the prior two albums by Reid’s quartet with guitarist Mary Halvorson, bassist Jason Roebke, and drummer Tomas Fujiwara. That is not to say the record does not stand on its own; it is a solid and thoroughly enjoyable outing. But comparing it to earlier works reveals essential facets of the work. On the group’s self-titled debut (Thirsty Ear, 2014), Reid wrote pieces that provided a sturdy yet ornate structure by focusing on general instrumentation more than individualized musicians. The follow-up, Old New (Cuneiform, 2019), showed that the foundation is no less solid when the focus shifts toward the specific musicians, even as each plays a shifting role within the overall piece. 3+3 loosens the approach of Old New even further to incorporate more free improvisation and electronics than before. These increased liberties nevertheless still result in pieces in which the composed musical expression remains secure. “Exploring Outward / Funambulist Fever” provides a great example of this as the piece gradually shifts from free improvisation into clear melodic lines on the cello.

Across 3+3, one can find moments of extreme beauty appreciable by all, interspersed with free and individualized expression. Dr. Reid’s adept skills at exploring this space between structure and freedom should be unsurprising given her background. Over the last decade and a half, she has been at the forefront of bringing the cello – an instrument stereotypically confined to highly composed pieces – into improvised contexts. In the process, she has collaborated with some of the best creative musicians, including Nicole Mitchell, Anthony Braxton, Roscoe Mitchell, and Myra Melford. Equally important, the MacArthur Genius is a member of the Association for the Advancement of Creative Musicians (AACM), an organization that has pushed the outer edges of music for decades.

PostGenre: You formed this quartet in 2014. So, you have been together for ten years now. How do you feel it has changed the most over that period? 

Tomeka Reid: Yeah, we had our very first gig in February 2014. I think when we did the first record, I had all of the compositions ready to go. I had composed some of the pieces as early as 2008, and when we got together, we just played those compositions. I didn’t have specific musicians in mind when I wrote those pieces. 

With the second record, I knew who was in the band, so I could keep them in mind while composing. I find that I like to shift roles in the group. So, sometimes I play the bassline, and Jason and Mary can play the melody. And other times, I have the melody. We’re constantly shifting roles. But I guess with the second record I was establishing myself, too. I focused more on how the work fits within the jazz continuum. 

PG: And with 3 + 3? 

TR: I wanted to explore longer-form compositions. Also, I still want to shift roles between all the musicians, but I also wanted a lot of free improvisation. When I do gigs, I freely improvise frequently, but it didn’t on the last two records. I wanted the record to be more like a live set in that sense. I wanted to figure out how to build moments of free improvisation into tunes. And to do so in a way that would play out like a suite, as if it were the full night of a gig. 

PG: So why not record a live album instead? 

TR: I don’t know. Maybe that’s what I’ll do next time. You’re always evolving. So that was just my thought process at the time. I guess my brain was still thinking I must go into the studio to record, which may not be the case. 

PG: As far as your mention earlier of the shifting of roles between musicians, does that make your approach to composing the pieces more difficult?

TR: No, not necessarily. I started exploring the idea of moving around roles with the quartet’s second album, so I was more used to the approach by this one. We are used to shifting roles. We don’t have to be centered around any one person – even though it is my band – we can just share. The quartet is very collaborative. 

PG: You have worked with Mary on several different projects – Myra Melford’s Fire and Water Quartet for instance-  and are in Tomas’ 7 Poets Trio. Do you feel those experiences shape the quartet? 

TR: I don’t know. I mean, the quartet was established before those projects. But, in general, I love collaborating because it lets me learn other people’s music and other people’s styles. In 7 Poets, I’m essentially the bass player and developing that side more. I serve a bass function in Myra’s group too, but- maybe because it is a larger group – Myra is sometimes also holding down the bassline on the piano. So, with that band, the bass role is more shared. Myra’s compositions are, for lack of a better word, more orchestral. It is a different vibe than 7 Poets, but both have helped me further grow as a player. I’m always still learning and growing as a player. And I’m sure that impacts how I play in my own ensemble. 

PG: You often compose by singing melodies. Is that something you did with 3 + 3 as well? 

TR: Definitely. I still compose that way because I’m not that person who can set out a piece of paper and immediately start writing. Sometimes I’ll do that with just rhythms, but I generally don’t. If I hear something, l record it with my phone or, most often, GarageBand, and sing those melodies. 

PG: Do you feel that composing at a piano or your cello would have drastically changed the record?

TR: No. Actually, I do a combination. I write on the cello as well. And, this time, I had access to a piano, so used that to compose as well. I wrote using all three – voice, piano, and cello. 

PG: OK. And what inspired the use of long-form songs on the album?

TR: I don’t know. I wrote most of the music for this record when I was the Improviser in Residence at the Moers Jazz Festival, which gave me time to be in one place for a while and to compose. I didn’t have to pull everything together in a weekend or some other short period. I had about a month to sit with ideas and think about how to best showcase Mary, Jason, and Tomas in the pieces. I tried to write in ways that would celebrate their strengths.

I felt my earlier pieces would sometimes use an ostinato that just repeats. But I worried about whether working that way would be boring. I blame hip hop for that. That’s the music that I grew up on. It’s not music where you have a ton of harmonic motion. You have harmonics but in a different way. That’s great, but maybe it is also more static because you have these repeated figures. I wanted to figure out how to have that but also open it up more if I could. 

I also do so much free improvisation when performing live. I didn’t use free improvisation on the other records, but it’s part of what I do. Sometimes people tell me that I write such melodic stuff, but then when I improvise myself, it’s very free or open. And that’s true because I like both melody and free improvisation.  I wanted to bring the two together. Some people don’t like it, but I deeply love free improvisation. I don’t want to hide that part of me. 

PG: So, what do you feel was behind your prior hesitancy to record free improvisation? 

TR: I think my focus on having to write boxed me in a little. Not that you are not composing when using free improvisation. I just didn’t always record my free improvisation. But why not do so? And, who knows, maybe on the next record, I’ll go back to just having tunes, or whatever. But free improvisation is something we’ve done on stage often. I would say almost half my work involves improvisation of that nature. Why not document it? Why not record it? 

PG: It would seem your involvement with the Association for the Advancement of Creative Musicians (AACM) may also have made you more open to free improvisation over the years. How did you first get started with the AACM? 

TR: I would say that came as a result of playing with Nicole Mitchell in her Black Earth Ensemble. I didn’t know too much about the AACM before I moved to Chicago from [Washington,] DC. I think I got exposed to the AACM and AACM musicians by being around Nicole and playing at Fred Anderson’s Velvet Lounge. Eventually, after reading George Lewis’ book [A Power Stronger Than Itself (University of Chicago, 2008)], I better understood what the organization stood for and its impact on the world.

When I joined, I came in with a class that included Mike Reed and, I think, Dee Alexander. Even though Dee had been singing tangentially with AACM groups for years, I think she became an official member then, too. Maybe Corey Wilkes and Junius Paul, as well. I feel lucky because Fred Anderson’s Velvet Lounge was still up and running and would present the large ensemble of AACM known as the Great Black Music Ensemble. That gave us opportunities to play periodically as a group that was always creating. 

PG: You mentioned George Lewis’ excellent book. You are also writing one about the women of the AACM, right?

TR: Yes, I’m trying to. I need to get that started. I’ve done a little research into it, but the pandemic kind of disturbed everybody, I guess. I didn’t get on it as soon as I wanted to. And then I also wanted to get this new record out. I think I had a compositional itch I needed to satisfy. Now that I have done that, I think I have more mental space to get the book going. I’m excited about it. 

PG: Somewhat related to the balance between the structure of composition and the freedom of improvisation, your husband, David Brown, is an architecture professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Do you see a parallel between constructing a blueprint for architecture and one for music?

TR: Well, he wrote a book on those connections called Noise Orders: Jazz, Improvisation, and Architecture (University of Minnesota, 2006). We even met at a jazz and architecture conference in New York in 2018. I keep telling him that he and I should do a podcast to talk about the connections between jazz and architecture. It’s a very interesting area. In some of his lectures, he talks about how we approach improvisation, think about organizing musical ideas, and how we can apply them to architecture. I think he’s more open to stuff like this than most architects because he didn’t practice much after school. He got paid to be a teacher very early on. He’s very curious about how improvisers organize ideas, how they communicate ideas, how they think about things, and how you can apply that sensibility to architecture and thinking about spaces. And you can definitely apply the creative process we undertake as musicians to other fields. 

PG: In addition to free improvisation, electronics also seem to be much more present on 3 + 3 than your prior two quartet albums. Previously, you would use extended techniques to get some of those electronic effects. 

TR:  Mm-hmm. 

PG: How do you feel, now that you are using electronics, your technique on the cello may have changed?

TR: Yeah. I still very much love acoustic cello. I resisted electronics because I was trying to figure out how to achieve those sounds acoustically. I love it when Mary occupies a space different from me, with me doing acoustic and her electric. I also wasn’t very happy with how I was seeing some string players incorporate electronics. To use them myself, I wanted to have more intention when using electronics and to feel like I explored several possibilities. So, for a long time, I tried to get these electronic sounds acoustically. 

PG: So, what pedals are you using on your cello? Octave and delay?

TR: Well, I permitted myself to try electronic sounds many years ago. When I was first starting out, I played in some settings for people who would want me to sub for the bass player. To do that, they would often tell me I would need an octave pedal. But I decided I wanted to show them I could do basslines without a pedal. I have to say that sometimes I wished I had a five-string cello. I would have loved a low F string because I always wish I could get a low B flat. Later, after I felt like I had done a lot of exploring, I thought back to the idea of using an octave pedal and wanting that low B flat.  I also explored tuning my low C string down. I love the intervallic thing that was happening between this random low pitch I would take and another note that I would do on the string above, between my C and G. 

My music still, even with free improvisation, uses tunes that are in a tonality. It would be too hard, in a recorded setting, or even on stage, to try to retune my cello in the middle of a performance. The octave pedal allows me to get that feeling or sound that I want without having to detune. It gives me the low pitches that I want. 

As for the delay pedal, I added it because it would be fun to play around with. I’m a playful person. I like playing with that pedal sometimes but not always. I add it when I want something to sound a bit more epic. I think my use of the delay pedal is also inspired by Mary’s use of it. It is fun to loop a bassline, then loop a comping line, and solo over it. I love how Mary does that in a very unique way. She’ll come up with something and then play over it, but her ideas are constantly developing. I feel like what I heard with most string players is that they have a static thing that doesn’t really change. But when you hear Mary, you know it’s Mary. Even as she is constantly developing lines that are always changing and developing in real-time. 

But, in general, I’m so excited for this group to be together ten years later. I feel so grateful to be with such great bandmates who have helped me grow as a bandleader and composer by sticking with me and being on this journey.

‘3 + 3’ is out now on Cuneiform Records. It can be purchased on Bandcamp. More information on Tomeka Reid can be found on her website.