Creating Beyond the Performance: A Conversation with Red Hook Records’ Sun Chung

The technical definition of a music producer is someone who “oversees and manages the creative and technical side of recording… to match the artist’s vision and quality goals.” While technically correct, this explanation also risks significantly understating the role a good producer can have in crafting a project to match their own vision and to interpret a musician through their own lens. Indeed, in some cases, the line between artist and producer becomes surprisingly blurred. Miles Davis’ electric works would have been markedly different without Teo Macero’s post-recording techniques. Creed Taylor’s warmth permeates throughout the CTI oeuvre. The power in each of Keith Jarrett’s notes on the broken piano of The Köln Concert (ECM, 1975) is inseparable from Manfred Eicher’s sound world, which magnifies silence. In many ways, this lineage of producer as auteur has continued to the next generation with Red Hook Records’ Sun Chung.

Chung learned directly inside the House of Eicher. But it is a mistake to see his own label as a clone of ECM. In many ways, Red Hook takes a distinctly different approach. Where ECM generally amplifies the line between sound and silence, perhaps Red Hook’s greatest contribution lies in defining the lines between different artists’ voices. The label has repeatedly found intriguing possibilities in pairing well-established artists with distinctive sonic personalities into new configurations with one another. That was certainly true in pairing longtime AACM masters Wadada Leo Smith and Amina Claudine Myers, who had never previously recorded together. But it equally applies to the trio of Jason Moran, BlankFor.ms, and Marcus Gilmore. Or, even more recently, the forthcoming Trappings of Sleep (Red Hook, 2026) trio of Caroline Davis, Grey McMurray, and Qasim Naqvi. Chung’s masterstrokes come in fostering environments in which unpredictable brilliance can emerge from those capable of creating it.

But Chung does not simply set the stage and step back. He also engages in significant post-production work which shapes the end result. He chips away at the edges of a well-sculpted figure to reveal new curves and edges. In some cases, his chips cut even deeper than they initially seem. Often, these touches are subtle but no less significant. And they seem to pay off well. Over the last five years, Red Hook Records has grown from a startup into one of the premier outlets in creative music.​

We sat down with Chung ahead of a special anniversary celebration to discuss the label and his approach to production. The performances will take place across two nights at Roulette. September 18, 2026, will bring a solo performance by Myers and a trio of Andrew Cyrille, Smith, and Naqvi. The next night will provide two trios: Davis-McMurray-Naqvi and Moran-BlankFor.ms-Gilmore. Sometimes, more can be gleaned by listening than through words. All of the groups presenting at Roulette – excluding Cyrille, Smith, and Naqvi – have previously recorded for Red Hook. But hearing them, then later listening to their albums, will provide an excellent opportunity to experience Chung’s sonic fingerprints firsthand.

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PostGenre: What first got you into producing? 

Sun Chung: That’s a good question. I never intended to become a producer. It wasn’t a childhood dream of mine or anything like that. Initially, I wanted to become a musician. But, at some point, I realized that I hated being on stage. I was practicing a lot and doing what I thought was necessary to succeed as a performer. But after over ten years of that, I still never liked being on stage. 

So I decided to focus on composition rather than performance. I went to get my Masters Degree in composition at New England Conservatory in Boston. I felt much more at home studying composition. I didn’t feel the discomfort of needing to be in front of people. And that organically led to producing. I ended up having all the so-called tools necessary for the job.  I started helping musicians out there, and I liked it. One thing led to another and I met Manfred at ECM and got a job there. Everything happened pretty organically. 

PG: What do you feel you learned the most from your time at ECM? 

SC: One of the things that struck me the most – and I still try to improve on – is how to speak to the musicians during the tracking sessions. One word might completely shift the session’s direction. What you say to an artist in a session must be well thought out and careful. But it also must be, at the same time, spontaneous. Manfred is amazing at that. He has a unique way of putting musicians at ease and saying the right words at the right time. If I have a weak point in my work as a producer, that’s probably it.

PG: What is your greatest strength as a producer then?

SC: I’m very good at post-production, taking what we have recorded and shaping it into something ready for release. 

PG: As far as using the right words at the right time, is that something you can develop more over time, or are you born with that skill? 

SC: Yeah, I think that’s a question I should ask my therapist. [laughing]. I think it’s both. I think it’s something that you can learn and become more comfortable with but something that also comes more naturally to some people.

My first session fifteen years ago – before ECM – was a complete disaster. The music still worked out for the most part, but that is largely because I was able to shape it after the fact so it sounded better. The session itself was a mess. There were times when I said things that, even to this day, make me cringe when I think about them. I kept on stopping the musicians during the track, which is something that you do only in emergency circumstances. Doing so stops the entire creative flow. It also helps that I have learned more techniques since then. Now, I can more easily fix little things without being too disruptive. Then, I kept insisting on starting back over again any time something did not go right. And doing so was very detrimental to the session because it would often make the artists self-conscious about what we were recording. But the tools to move beyond that came to me by trial and error. My time at ECM also helped. When I was with ECM, I got to see how Manfred worked and watching him was a game changer for me. 

PG: It seems that type of mentorship is increasingly rare these days, too. 

SC: Right. There are simply not many mentorship opportunities available. But that relationship can be so important. It is the same for musicians, too.  Many younger musicians learn so much by joining an elder’s band, observing the master, and listening to their feedback. That is very common for musicians. But it is much less common on the production side unless, maybe, you get an internship somewhere. I was very fortunate to have that opportunity with Manfred for almost ten years. 

PG: ECM has such a distinct sound. As someone who spent nearly a decade inside that space and learning from it, was it difficult to create your own sound for Red Hook separate from that label?

SC: I don’t think I ever consciously thought that I needed to do something unique. I reasoned that if I produced recordings long enough, there would naturally be a common thread running through the records. My production skills were somewhat established by the time I started the label. I had enough experience to start something on my own. 

My bigger challenges came by way of logistics. Things like getting distributors, sourcing manufacturers, finding album covers – which to this day is still quite a challenge, getting a good designer, and a good photographer. It’s all-encompassing. And I have to keep a hand in everything in order to get a good final record. It’s a lot of work and every one of the steps is a learning process in itself. For instance, for artwork, you need to develop your eye to be able to choose something with more depth. And that is not something that comes to you automatically simply because you are a good listener. Going through that experience for several albums now has been a learning experience. So has learning what it takes to get the best sound on vinyl. I’ve really learned about many things while starting a record label.

PG: Certainly something that contributes to the label’s own sound is the unique collaborations you have been able to form. To some extent, your work on these stretches back to the ECM days with a record like Lebroba (ECM, 2018) pairing Andrew Cyrille with Wadada Leo Smith and Bill Frisell. How do these collaborations come together? 

SC: First and foremost, I try to seek out those opportunities. During my time at ECM, I thought that those collaborations would be nice, interesting fits. It was always in the back of my mind that the most important thing is to work with musicians who are great listeners and great reactors to sound. People who have a sense of generosity towards other artists and can complement what they’re doing musically. Ultimately, if you are working with artists who are great listeners and have very good taste in the notes they select to play, you could put together any combination with them and it’ll be very, very interesting. 

With that in mind, for Lebroba, all three of Andrew, Bill, and Wadada have those qualities. They also each have a unique voice.  That’s the reason I put them together. The connection between Andrew and Bill came from before that record; they were together on Andrew’s quartet record I did for ECM [The Musical Declaration of Independence (ECM, 2016)]. I wanted to take the concept of them together but change it from the quartet. I brought in Wadada to create a more open sound. Since I had worked with Bill and Andrew previously, it was easy to get in touch with them. Wadada had recorded for ECM before and I think I got his contact through Manfred. It was pretty easy to get that trio together. 

PG: To go back to what you were saying about being careful with words to guide the artists but not force them, do you see your role as a producer primarily as a documentarian of music that is already there or as essentially a co-composer? When you consider something like the work Teo Macero did with Miles [Davis] in the late ‘60s and early ‘70s, it seems the compositional lines can sometimes blur. 

SC: That is an excellent question and I am not even sure myself. Usually, I first contact a musician and we discuss what would fit best musically for an album. Then we work on pre-production together. The musician sends me music and I send back comments. This process can sometimes take place for over a year. And whenever we feel we’re ready, we go into the studio and record. We usually spend a couple of days in the studio. Then I edit what we recorded. The editing process is a massive undertaking. It can take anywhere from forty hours to a hundred hours. As far as editing, the changes can be as minute as changing one or a few notes in a solo. Or it can be as extensive as taking an entire track, cutting the beginning, and adding it to another track. Sometimes, I even tune instruments on recordings if the pitch is not right. All of the editing is done mostly at my discretion. Have you heard Amina [Claudine Myer]’s solo album?

PG: Yes, it is gorgeous. 

SC: As with most – almost all – of the records I’ve released, I spent a lot of time editing it. I must have spent over fifty hours editing that record. But when it is done well, you can’t really tell how much editing was done. I think people would be surprised if they knew how much post-production work was done on that record. Actually, I think it would be very interesting if one day I brought in a select group of people and played them the original version. It would be quite interesting for people to hear it. 

PG: The album really does not sound like it would have been edited heavily after being recorded. But I think that is a testament to your work that the editing is not always very noticeable. 

SC: Yeah, that’s the goal. I try to put the artists in the best light for them. That’s very important to me and I don’t spare any energy in trying to achieve that. 

PG: So, do you see Red Hook as aiming to do more than primarily documenting the creative music scene as it exists now?

SC: Well, I perceive live performances and recording as two very different art forms. Maybe it’s a bad analogy, but I’d compare live performance to theater and recordings to films. I wouldn’t say that I’m necessarily documenting. I don’t think I’m recording something to try to get the most faithful recreation of what’s coming out in terms of the music. I do try to preserve the energy of the session. But it would also be totally fine for me to, for instance, put together a record the listener may feel would have been impossible to experience live. The type of albums where there are things like too many overdubs. I even value that to some extent because I feel like a studio recording and a live performance are two different experiences altogether. I love being able to help bring new experiences to life. 

More information on Red Hook Records can be found on its website. The label will be commemorating its fifth anniversary with two nights of performances at Roulette. On Friday, September 18, 2026, it will present a solo performance by Amina Claudine Myers and trio of Andrew Cyrille, Wadada Leo Smith, and Qasim Naqvi. On Saturday, September 19, 2026, it will present two trios: one of Caroline Davis with Qasim Naqvi and Grey McMurray, and one of Jason Moran with BlankFor.ms and Marcus Gilmore.