Genuine Expression: A Conversation with Julius Rodriguez

“Is it jazz?” This question has plagued improvised music for nearly half a century. Almost as long as people have used the label “jazz”, they have questioned how to define it. Some – Wynton Marsalis and Stanley Crouch being perhaps the most prominent voices – have even proposed unsupportable theses on the “true” definition of “jazz” in furtherance of some narrow, often self-serving, purpose. All of these discussions, however, miss the point entirely. The core of “jazz” has always been the power of artists to use improvisation to express themselves in a manner deeper than mere words could convey. In this sense, “jazz” is ultimately interconnected with almost all other kinds of music. Today, a new generation of musicians discard the narrow definitions in favor of extracting the music’s essence. With many in this class born after the dust settled from the neotraditionalist crusade of the 1980s, they see the futility of the jazz definitional debate. Instead, all music is valid. The wisdom of the elders is to be a guide, not a straightjacket. A perfect example of this mindset is present in Julius Rodriguez’s major-label debut, Let Sound Tell All (Verve, 2022). 

On the album’s opener, “Blues at the Barn”, the 23-year-old pianist-drummer begins with a 1960s McCoy Tyner-like sound that evidences a clear indebtedness to that era’s post-bop. The following, “All I Do” displays the connectivity of such sound to R&B. With the spacy “Soundcheck Interlude” and the Roy Hargrove-infused aura of “Gift to the Moon” featuring trumpeter Giveton Gelin, the music continues to expand eternally outward. Across the entire recording’s nine tracks, Rodriguez and his compatriots underscore the connectivity between the ideas of the elders of “jazz” and more contemporary concepts from avant-garde music, hip-hop, gospel, R&B, and pop. Where some would compartmentalize these ideas, on Let Sound Tell All, they naturally flow into one another, definitively stating they all share a common purpose and lineage. We sat down with Rodriguez to discuss the album and his views on music. 

PostGenre: How are you?

Julius Rodriguez: I’m good. I’m excited to do some shows presenting some of the music on Let Sound Tell All. I’m also getting ready to move to Los Angeles. 

PG: Why Los Angeles?

JR: There are many different opportunities that I want to take advantage of in LA in terms of film scoring and production. 

PG: What is it about film scoring that interests you?

JR: Well, for me, music is a functional thing. Creating the music that goes into film, and becomes part of the film’s story, helps bring music beyond just something you can listen to. It is also great to be able to work with videographers and photographers. 

PG: It seems that your view of music as being something more than the technical listening experience guides much of your career thus far. At one point you had dropped out of Julliard to go on tour with A$AP Rocky. What do you feel you learned the most from going on the road and being in front of audiences compared to if you had stayed in a more formal educational setting?

JR: Actually performing for large audiences helps you better understand what matters most about music. While the technical aspects of music are important, they are not the most important thing about music. Often, in an academic setting, people get so caught on technical things, like playing the “right” notes or complicated extensions. But it’s important to understand how people hear things and what will resonate with the listener. The technical aspects are great. But, ultimately, they are tools that can make audiences feel something and communicate through the music. 

PG: Do you feel the academic setting further entrenches the categorization of music as it emphasizes certain aspects of one style or another?

JR: I think those problems come more, in a general sense, from people focusing on making money off of music instead of emphasizing its effect on people. The result is music that is more disconnected from its true purpose. With genres, you can categorize the market in a specific way instead of letting the music itself do the work. And, if you listen to interviews with elders of the music, they will say the same thing. Critics and business people tend to put terms like “jazz” onto music; it doesn’t come from the musicians. 

PG: Building off of your mention of the elders, you have shown an interest in the music of those who came before. Ellington and Monk are two names that come to mind, of several. But you are also taking a very modern approach to music. Do you have any thoughts on the interplay between modernity and older ideas? 

JR: Yeah. You have to ensure you never compromise the integrity of what you’re doing. I spent a lot of time around older musicians and learned as much as I could from them. There is a lot to learn from the elders. But people also have to realize that things evolve. The world changes. The key is to find a way to translate the essence of what you learned from elders while finding a new way to approach things. I’m 23 and need to be versed in the ideas of musicians of my generation and my peers. The goal is to find a way that resonates with your generation but builds off the elders, not ignore them. 

PG: Let Sound Tell All features a few of your contemporaries who seem to take a similar view of music. To ask you about one, Morgan Guerin is on two tracks. Do you feel a particularly strong connection to him as you are both multi-instrumentalists?

JR: Totally. Morgan’s one of my best friends. I met him a long time ago at summer camp. I can’t speak for him, but he’s inspired me so much through the years. Not only is he a fellow multi-instrumentalist, but he is bold about his music. He’s not afraid to do anything and does everything at such a high level. It’s been great having him as part of my project. 

PG: Among other things, Morgan is part of Terri Lyne Carrington’s group, Social Science. Carrington is also one of your mentors. What do you feel you have learned the most from working with her?

JR: Terri Lyne is the one who got me out of being stuck in the same old-school mindset of how to approach music. I used to focus heavily on recreating something from the past. Terri Lyne noticed I did that before I even did. She was the one who convinced me to be myself instead of just trying to recreate the music that came before. There is a great quote from Wayne [Shorter] that she shared with me: “Music is not the most important thing in the world. You must learn to live life. Life goes on without music, and the way your music can get better is to live your life outside of it.” I ultimately needed to put my own life, my own voice, into the music to make better music. Terri Lyne helped me better understand that.

PG: You originally studied classical music. Classical training often emphasizes the preservation of musical history and tradition as so much of it focuses on giving a faithful reading of the works of various composers. Do you feel that starting with classical is part of what gave you some initial hesitancy in finding your musical voice?

JR: Not exactly. I did start with classical, but, in a way, I ran from classical music. I wanted to play jazz music because it flows more freely than just reciting notes on a page. Improvisation allows you to be freer with the music, But you can still end up improvising in someone else’s style. It is that copying of someone else’s style that gave me trouble before I found my voice. 

PG: Why do you think some people focus so heavily on tradition and ignore anything more modern? Some even still cling to some flawed idea that jazz died around 1965. 

JR: I think most of those people are afraid of their ideas dying out; of losing connections. They hold onto the things they know and that are familiar because they don’t want to see them disappear. I can understand that. But, at the same time, it seems short-sighted. People who think jazz died at some point don’t fully realize what so many musicians are doing today. There are so many musicians doing truly incredible things. 

PG: In addition to jazz,  Let Sound Tell All also builds from hip hop and R&B. Do you see the three as connected?

JR: Ultimately, they all come from the same source; the blues. If you think about the origins of jazz, it comes from where the blues met European classical harmonies through church music. Music evolves to better satisfy its purpose. Jazz came about because people wanted to express themselves in a way that was genuine to them. That’s the same thing as what led to hip hop. With hip hop, some poets wanted to incorporate music into what they were doing to make things more melodic. And, with R&B, people were writing love songs, again, to express how they felt. From a broad perspective, they are all the same thing. 

PG: Which, in a way, goes to the title of Let Sound Tell All. What do you feel music can communicate that perhaps the written word could not?

JR: The idea behind Let Sound Tell All is that sound itself will tell you what you’re listening to. Don’t rely on what other people are saying about the music. Focus on how the music makes you feel. Everyone that listens to the album is going to add their own unique experience into what they hear. They shouldn’t rely on what someone else says about it.

PG: As one example, the album includes a version of “All I Do.” Some people would associate the song with Stevie Wonder while others would think of the original by Tammi Terrell. 

JR: Right. And some have never heard the song before at all. It is a beautiful thing that the song will bring different memories, or new ones, to people. 

PG: Though Wonder’s version is probably the best known of the two. As you are both keyboard players, has Stevie Wonder’s music had much of an influence on you?

JR: A huge one. Many people see him as an artist who transcends genre and culture. Sure, he’s an R&B artist who was very big in the 1970s, but he shows appreciation for all kinds of ideas in his music. And everyone in the world knows at least one Stevie Wonder song. Everyone can find some connection to his music on a very human level. That is what I strive for with my music as well. 

PG: Another artist who seemed to significantly avoid genre classification to make music that better resonates with people is Roy Hargrove. You worked with Roy at some point, correct?

JR: Yeah. We didn’t work together formally, but we sat in on each other’s gigs and spent time hanging out. 

PG: On “Gift of the Moon”, Giveton Gelin’s trumpet sounds a little like Roy. It seems many artists today are exploring that area between jazz, hip hop, and R&B. Do you credit Roy for showing how connected these types of music are?

JR: For sure. Roy was the first “jazz” musician who showed me that jazz musicians are so versatile that they can do anything. When I started listening to Roy, it was his more straight-ahead music. Then I heard the RH Factor. And Cristol, his Latin group. And then his work with D’Angelo and the rest of the Soulquarians. Seeing Roy make all these different kinds of music, and each at such a high level, was inspiring. And he kept his integrity while approaching music in such a broad way. If anything, he was more respected for doing so. He was a model for those of us who want to make music with a bit broader of an approach. 

PG: One final question. Some of the songs on Let Sound Tell All date back to 2017. Others were completed by February of 2019. How do you feel your music has changed in the last three to five years?

JR: I’ve become more involved in the production process. I’ve increasingly stepped away from the traditional way of recording music and begun looking at post-production and things that can be done after a performance has been recorded. Approaching post-production as another tool for making music has revealed things to me that I think will take my music to another level. It’s still an ongoing process, but the music I have been working on has started revealing itself to me.

Let Sound Tell All is now available on Verve Records. It can be purchased here.

You can follow Rodriguez on Facebook.