The Journey: A Conversation with Kenny Garrett on ‘Who Killed AI?’

Miles Davis once remarked, “It’s not about standing still and becoming safe. If anybody wants to keep creating, they have to be about change.” This emphasis on evolution does not necessarily mean needing to adapt a new voice. The key is to retain your core identity while stretching into new realms. Miles certainly did, and so have many of his protegees, including his last saxophonist, Kenny Garrett. One in an incredible lineage of alto saxophonists who worked with Miles – including Charlie Parker, Lee Konitz, Cannonball Adderley, Jackie McLean, Sonny Stitt, Gary Bartz, and Sonny Fortune – Garrett could have easily and safely built his career simply around his time with the Dark Prince of Jazz. Instead, the NEA Jazz Master has continually pushed toward different ideas and sounds. The latest iteration of his expansiveness can be found on Who Killed AI? (Mack Avenue, 2024), a project with electronic producer Svoy.

Who Killed AI? sounds equally like a Kenny Garret record and like something he has never done before. Similar to Miles, he has honed a distinct voice on his instrument of choice. In this case, one that is dark and powerful with hues of the Blues and Coltranian spiritualism. As a result, despite the environment surrounding him, a careful and knowledgeable listener can often identify Garrett’s horn. That is true whether on a hip hop record by Q-Tip or Guru, a pop album by Sting, or several releases under his own name. A great example on Who Killed AI? can be found in his solo on “Ascendence.”

But Garrett is also not afraid to mess with his identifiable tone. At various points on Who Killed AI? pedals morph his saxophone into sounding like entirely different instruments. On “Divergence Tu-dah,” an electric guitar. On “Transcendence,” a trumpet with a wah-wah mute. But even his modified instrument has an ineffable quality that ties it to his more traditional sax work. 

The album itself is a compelling exploration of electronic music. Svoy builds textures that can be propulsive one moment and quiet and contemplative the next. But perhaps more than anything else, Who Killed AI? is playful and fun. You can sense the laid-back environment of its creation; it was recorded in Garrett’s living room. In a career abundantly filled with impressive recordings, Who Killed AI? is perhaps Kenny Garrett’s most electrifying to date. 

PostGenre: Who Killed AI? is a fantastic record.

Kenny Garret: Thank you.

PG: It is different from your prior works, and in the notes to the recording, you indicated that you think most listeners would not expect you to sound as you do on it. Do you feel at all limited by other people’s expectations of how your music will sound? 

KG: You know, I remember hanging out with Brother Yusef Lateef for about a year. We used to talk every day. I was a fan of his music but quickly realized that I didn’t know his history like I thought I did. The more we talked, and the more I researched him, I soon realized he was the first person to make World Music. As I started to check out his other music – some string arrangements and other orchestral work and also some funky stuff – I became very confused. I felt like I really didn’t know about his music or, really, about him after all. I think by the time someone is introduced to his music, he had already moved on to something else. As another example, when I first learned about Cannonball [Adderley], I, initially, didn’t know about his playing with Miles [Davis]. I only knew his music from the late ‘60s, like  “Mercy, Mercy, Mercy.” And it surprised me when I realized it was the same guy as on Kind of Blue (Columbia, 1959). 

Reflecting on those experiences had me thinking about how there will be new people introduced to the music who haven’t heard a lot of my albums in the past. Maybe they only listened to Sounds from the Ancestors (Mack Avenue, 2021) or Songbook (Warner Bros., 1997). Those albums would lead the listener to think my music sounds a certain way. And when they hear Who Killed AI? there may be a displacement. That displacement is what I had in mind when I made that statement. There will be some people who will hear Who Killed AI? and be surprised by how different it sounds from some of my other recordings. 

But, no, I don’t feel limited by others’ expectations because this is what I do. I practice to be able to do different jobs. I mean, I’ve done stuff with Sting and Peter Gabriel. I’ve done stuff with rappers and stuff with orchestras. I’ve done many things, but I think sometimes when something is not under your own name, it may not be as noticeable to some people. 

PG: But even within records under your name, it is clear that your scope is broad. For example, Beyond the Wall (Nonesuch, 2006) was built around traditional Chinese music. It seems like you are not just a “jazz” guy. 

KG: I’ve never been that guy. I’ve always been open to different genres. 

PG: Are there any genres you would like to explore further but have not?

KG: Well, it has always been my dream to play with B.B. King but I never had the chance. I also always wanted to work with James Brown but that too didn’t happen. I love the challenge of trying to paint a canvas with some chords from which I can try to create some music, of any kind. 

PG: When combining different genres, are you consciously linking certain musical ideas with certain genres?

KG: No. I’m playing some music. I never even think about genre. I look for new things to try, regardless of what they are called. 

I remember the first time I went to Japan, I found some music called Enka. I was fascinated by it. I have always been interested in traditional types of music, whether Middle Eastern, Japanese, or from wherever. The first time I went to Greece, I remember someone gave me a tape of Greek music, and it was great. And it’s the same with gospel music or the Blues. I have always tried to find the spiritual aspect behind the music, regardless of what type of music it is. 

PG: As far as electronic music specifically, do you remember the first time you ever heard electronic music? 

KG: When we say electronic, that term can mean many different things. Of course, there are synthesizers. But anytime you put a mic on something, it becomes electric. [Laughing]. So, there is no real way to answer that question. 

But I’ve always been open to every style of music, every time it shows up, because I’m a student of music. I’ve always tried to check things out.  I have to tell you a funny story. When drum and bass music came out, my band was Kenny Kirkland, Jeff “Tain” Watts, and Nat Reeves. We would play drum and bass but it wasn’t really drum and bass sound because of our instrumentation.  And on Sounds from the Ancestors, we used synthesizers to create some other sounds. It’s kind of the same thing with Who Killed AI? But, in general, I’m that guy who’s thinking about sounds all the time and seeing how I can fit into them. 

PG: So, one of the more interesting things is how you can get the saxophone, presumably through the use of pedals, to sound more like a guitar or trumpet with a wah-wah mute than itself. Given how hard saxophonists work to master their tone, did you enjoy changing your sound in that way?

KG: Well, changing my tone in that way is not new to me. I did some of that on the live record I did with Pharaoh Sanders [Sketches of MD: Live at The Iridium (Mack Avenue, 2008)]. There, I used a Digitech Box to change my sound. I also previously played with wah-wahs and other effects when I was with Miles.

It is a lot of fun to change how I sound, but what I like about Who Killed AI? is how it captures the fun we had recording it. We recorded it while sitting in my living room. Svoy would bring a track with no melody. And I would start playing the melody, take a solo, and that’s that. The bigger picture was that we wanted to add other live musicians – I was thinking of adding Ronald Bruner and a few other people – to the record. But I ultimately decided it was better to put it out as it was. I felt like it was also the perfect time to put this album out, and it gave audiences a chance to see that I could move into any style of music. 

One really important thing to note though is authenticity. I tell my band members all the time that no matter what kind of music we play – Afro-Cuban, hip hop, or whatever – I want to make sure we play it as authentically as possible. To do that takes work. But you have to keep moving and trying to grow. That’s what I’m trying to do with Who Killed AI? 

PG: You mentioned how you recorded the album in your living room. Do you feel the more intimate setting – compared to a studio – can be heard in the recording? 

KG: I think so, yeah. I think it can be heard because the experience of recording it was fun. I mean, with this album, I’m joking around, pretending to be Miles and other things. Savoy and I just got together and had fun with the music. I think, in that sense, Who Killed AI? is probably one of the easiest records for me to have recorded because I didn’t have the pressure of being in the studio. In the studio, you need to make sure everyone gets together and take breaks at the same time. You have to make sure everyone you’re working with is on the same page as you at the same time. But, like I said, recording this album was a beautiful experience. I don’t know how we could do it like that again with no pressure. 

PG: Well, do you think you could play this music live? 

KG: I definitely think the music can be played live. Of course, you would need to use some sequences, and stuff like that, but I think it can be played live. Actually, I’m looking at that now and trying to determine how I want to present it. There are a couple of ways you can present this music, and I haven’t yet figured out how I would do so. I just want any live performance of this music to be fun the same way as it was when we recorded it. 

PG: The music on Who Killed AI? is fun because, among other things, it has some heavy grooves. Going back through your other music, you often create songs that make people want to move. The song that has become your quasi-theme, “Happy People” is one great example. When creating Who Killed AI? Did you keep danceability in mind? 

KG: No, not necessarily. We were just trying different things. We weren’t trying to do anything specific. We were just flowing over things. I mean, we included a version of “My Funny Valentine” but that song could have been pretty much any melody. It’s just that what I felt from what Svoy was playing conjured up “My Funny Valentine” to me, and I started playing the melody. I was just playing whatever I felt at that moment. 

PG: As far as your selection of “My Funny Valentine”, do you feel that song choice was guided by the influence of Miles? You could have chosen any standard, but that one has some pretty close associations with him. 

KG: Perhaps. Of course, Miles was there because of the second tune, “Miles Running Down AI.”  With that one, I wanted Svoy to write a song that sounded like something I would play with Miles. 

PG: It is interesting that you were looking for a song that would be like something you would play with Miles. The title itself of “Miles Running Down AI” is an obvious nod to Bitches Brew (Columbia, 1970), and it sounds more like his 70s work than his work with you in the 80s. 

KG: That is a fair assessment. As I created the melody, I envisioned how Miles would play things at Woodstock if he were playing there today. Or I was thinking of something that wouldn’t be played at Woodstock, it would be played at Coachella. Because AI wouldn’t play at Woodstock, it would play at Coachella. [Laughing]. Miles’ spirit was definitely there, but his spirit is always in my music. I was with Miles for five and a half years. [Ed. note: Mr. Garrett may have misspoke here. He was in Miles’ band from 1987-1991]. I had a great experience. I loved it and learned a lot from that time with him. 

PG: When you were with Miles, he was heavy into using synths. Do you feel working with him in that context has helped you with approaching electronic music later in your career? 

KG: When I’m playing electronic music, I feel the same way as I did when I played with Miles. To me, playing electronic music is not really a new thing because of that time with Miles. But from a bigger perspective, I never think about some great divide between electronic and acoustic music. It’s all just music. That’s true whether we are talking about Who Killed AI?, Sounds from the Ancestors, or Do Your Dance! (Mack Avenue, 2016). It is also true with the Five Peace Band with Chick [Corea] and John [McLaughlin]. I never thought of working with that group as playing “fusion.” We were just playing music. 

Much more interesting to me is how you put your voice into the music. What story can I tell with what I am working with? When I played with Bruce Hornsby, I was thinking the same thing. What can I add to this? What can I bring to this? What am I feeling in this music? What can I learn? I mean, music is all just sound to me. The C7 chord is the same both with and without a drum machine. 

PG: What do you think Miles would have thought about AI making music? He too seemed to adopt your view that there are just many different sounds to explore. 

KG: Yeah, I think he would be interested in AI. I’m sure it would spark his curiosity.  I always told people that I understood Miles when I was in his band, but I understand him even more now.  After I played with Miles, I thought it was important for me to build my own career and my own catalog.  I’ve been doing that all along. I’m still building the catalog. In doing that, you are trying to find different ways to stay inspired. I’m always trying to find another way to be inspired and to play because that’s what it’s about at the end of the day. I’m always looking for another way to express myself. 

PG: Do you feel that finding new ways to stay inspired has become easier over time because of technology? Now people can go online and find all kinds of music to check out, compared to even twenty years ago when you would have to hunt down vinyl or CDs to see what other people were creating. 

KG: Well, I think the process is easier. I think you can get to a lot more music, as you stated. But I think there’s still something about the integrity and the spirit of the music that I’m looking for. Not everything pulls me in. I’m looking for something that says, “OK, this feels right to me.” And that is how it has been with Who Killed AI?  It is right when I listen to it.

PG: The titles of several pieces across the album – “Ascendence”, “Transcendence”, “Divergence Tu-dah”, and “Convergence” seem to suggest they are all part of a unified work. Do you see the different tracks as just different movements in a cohesive whole?

KG: Yes. I just want the people to hear it all as one piece of music. I see it as one thirty-five-minute piece of music. I’m just taking this journey. I want people to join me on that journey when they put the record on and hear different things each time they listen. 

I’m always trying to find different ways to express myself, whether through electronic music or some other challenge I haven’t tackled yet. I wanted to take on the challenge and see if I could find a way to express myself. I’m not trying to do anything but be myself. I’m not trying to say I’m playing electronic music. I’m just seeing how I can better express myself in a new context. 

PG: And finally, what led to the title Who Killed AI? when there is no actual artificial intelligence on the album? 

KG: Well, I’ve been studying a lot of AI stuff, but it wasn’t my title. A friend of mine, after listening to a few of the tracks said to me, “Oh man, that sounds like Who killed AI?” And I liked it. I think I did because there is a fear factor around how people think about what will happen with AI. I don’t know what’s going to happen. There will probably be some good and some bad in all stof it. But anytime there are some new ideas, there’s always that  fear factor because we don’t know how things are going to work out. It was the same thing with the cell phone. At first, you had those big cell phones and those car phones that could cause cancer. But, eventually, we all got this other phone and forgot about the cancer part. I think it’s the same with AI. There might be some aspects of AI that could cause some harm. But I want to be optimistic about AI. I hope it can help us find a cure for cancer and other great things like that which we greatly need. 

‘Who Killed AI?’ is now available on Mack Avenue Records. It can be purchased on Bandcamp. More information on Kenny Garrett can be found on his website.

Photo credit: Evelyn Freja