Out Into the World: A Conversation with Stuart Bogie (Part Two)

We continue our conversation with Stuart Bogie on The Bogie Band featuring Joe Russo’s The Prophets in the City (Royal Potato Family, 2022) by diving deeper into his compositional approach, the importance of improvisation, the contributions to the album by Joe Russo and Colin Stetson, and inspiration from David Byrne. Check out part one here.

PostGenre: There also seems to be a New York influence on The Prophets in the City. It takes ideas from music all across the globe and seems to reflect the multiculturalism you would find in New York. 

Stuart Bogie:  Yeah, I think this album is 100% New York. I started composing it after I moved back to New York after being out of the city for a few years. In New York, I see humanity played out in the streets right in front of my eyes, and I love it. I am positive the city’s melding of cultures shaped the recording.

PG: How much of the album is pre-composed and how much is improvised? Is it the typical structure where the head is composed but the solos are improvised?

SB: Yes, most of the solos are improvised. However, there is one that is not. “The Struggle” has a trombone solo that I wrote out. The album used three trombones in unison for the part, but in live performance, we do it with just one trombone. The part is very complicated. Raymond Mason, the band’s trombone player, is a miracle on the horn. He read the part straight up, and his performance of it came out so well that we decided to do it again, doubling and then tripling the magnetism of the part. 

PG: What is your compositional process?

SB: I work, for a long time, in layers. I will work on one piece until it fractures into many different compositions. Like a horticulturist would with a plant, I take something that has grown and then cut it and make it into two different pieces. Sometimes those pieces will grow back together. When they do, I will put the two next to each other on the record. Other times, the two will end up moving in different directions but still complement one another. In those cases, I try to keep their spirits near each other. But I usually just wait until a real simple idea hits me. I want my compositions to be based on something that feels natural. I like my music to be a musical prayer, of sorts. My music is, basically, my speaking to whomever or whatever controls the universe.  

PG: Is that why you have so much religious imagery in the titles of the album’s songs? 

SB: Yeah, music is my religious practice. It is a way for us all to collectively contemplate the miracle of existence.

PG: Do you plan on doing more with the band, or is this just a one-off project?

SB:  I love composing for a large ensemble and will keep doing it. I’ve already started writing music for another record with the band. I’m not sure how the music will want to come out. But I have a practice where I write regularly. I used to write primarily in the afternoons. Now, I do it very early in the morning. In either event, I always write a little bit every week.

PG: Do you feel that changing the time of day you compose changes your music at all?

SB: No. But having a standard practice – whether in the morning or the afternoon – streamlines my process. What I like more about composing in the morning is that I get up at 5 AM and there’s less chance of my being swamped with other things. The early time allows me to focus almost entirely on the compositional process. 

PG: When you were composing parts for the band, did you have particular musicians in mind, or did you write the part and then later figure out who would work on it with you?

SB: I didn’t necessarily have particular musicians in mind when I was writing. When composing, I am mostly trying to get the scaffolding of the building down. The specific musicians ultimately bring in their own sound and fill out the building. I’m very open to them bringing their own ideas, but the music is very arranged. 

To be frank, when we started on the album my savings had run low from my last tour. I called several friends that I’d worked with over the last 20 years and asked them to do me a favor by being on this album. So, I’m surrounded by a lot of love on the album. I gave them the music and they brought their enthusiasm and love. It was wonderful. I feel like Jimmy Stewart in It’s a Wonderful Life (RKO, 1946).

I just can’t believe the intensity and intention that everyone brought to the record. I mean, Ray Mason came and demoed the whole thing. Once we realized the basics of the album worked, we had to hear a song in the flesh. So, Ray came over and played with Joe [Russo] to help us see how it would sound. Testing the music that way was important because sometimes when you try to make things sound bigger you can end up making them sound smaller. There’s a saturation point that happens with voices. It also happens with things like rhythm and intonation or how chords are voiced.

PG: The Prophets in the City, among its many influences, seems to have a jam band aesthetic to it at times. What are your thoughts on the interplay between jam music and other musical categories like jazz?

SB:  Honestly, I can’t speak too much about genre. I think there is so much more overlap between categories of music than some folks would like to admit. But, I think both jam and jazz have at their core the love people have to hear someone improvise. People love the context and form of a song but with the freedom given to the artist to make it their own way. Historically, jazz gave that to people, perhaps more than any other kind of music. I love the idea that all kinds of people can improvise and create things that way. I embrace the Jam World and the live music world mostly because I love to see people improvising. 

The Jam World is one of the places in our culture that has been able to commercially sidestep a lot of what the industry forces onto music. You can say a lot of things about the Grateful Dead or Phish, but they think and do things in their own way. They don’t compromise. They’re not stressing a hit single or chasing some kind of fad or fashion. I can’t think of anything more mortifying than Jerry Garcia on some fast food cup. The only thing possibly worse would be John Coltrane on a Mountain Dew can. [Laughing]. But what I love about the music is that people do it their own way, and its followers aren’t a fair-weather audience. They show their love and support and keep coming back because the music is medicine to them. And that’s precisely because the artists don’t sacrifice their standards.

And, of course, that dedication to creativity applies to jazz as well. For example, I saw Roscoe Mitchell perform a few months ago. The music is incredible as can be expected. But he doesn’t compromise. His music isn’t the easiest for everyone to understand. But those who “get it” are deeply into his music. It’s not all that different from jam music. It’s not going to appeal to everyone, but it will have such strong supporters. 

PG: On the topic of straddling jazz and jam, how did Joe Russo get involved with this project?

SB: I’ve admired Joe’s playing for years. I’ve played with him for many years and have been a regular guest with his group, Joe Russo’s Almost Dead. His band is incredible, and it’s a thrill to watch them play.

As I was starting to put together this project and make demos, I started thinking about who I was going to have as the drummer. Because rhythm is such an important part of this album, I knew that whoever we ended up working with on the drums would complete the compositions with me. Joe and I have great communication musically. The record is very exciting; that’s 100% because of Joe. When he said yes to the project, it was like we had hit the accelerator, and I needed to just pour myself into it. 

PG: To ask you about another artist on the album, you have worked with Colin Stetson on several projects. How do you feel his musical ideas most resonate with you?

SB: Well, I met Colin when I was a 17 year old at college orientation. In those days, I didn’t even play the saxophone, only the clarinet. At first, we were trying to compete to some extent, as many young musicians do. But we had a lot in common. I liked John Zorn, and he did too. We both fancied ourselves as alternatives. Within a year, we started to change our tune and become friends, ultimately becoming best friends. We’ve played music together for years now. 

Colin is a tremendous inspiration to me. His work ethic and his dedication are so exemplary. When he hears something, he pursues it. He truly goes after where he feels the music brings him. That’s how we should all be approaching music. Why would anyone do otherwise? When you go to music school, there are a lot of people with chips on their shoulders. There are a lot of trips for people to lay on you. Colin is always able to just charge through those things. He has also given me a lot of encouragement for my melodic sensibilities and encouragement for my ideas. He still does. And he blesses this record with some of the finest soprano playing in the world.

PG: Colin is probably best known for his bass saxophone works. What was behind having him perform on soprano on the album instead of bass?

SB: Well, I just heard a soprano on the song. A lot of the album has different seasonal vibes. The one with Colin, “God in Us,” has a certain kind of sweetness but also a winter feeling to it. I almost put sleigh bells on it, but it just seemed too obvious. The song makes me envision snowy hills and a single light in a small house in the distance. And as you keep moving towards the house, the sky turns into this deep indigo color. Colin spends a lot of time in places like that and he recorded it in a place that looks and feels like that. Colin is also a miracle on the soprano saxophone. He wrote the melody for that song. He can come in and finish any sentence I start, and it will come up better than if I had done it. With our history, I knew I wanted him to be a part of the project. 

I also have one of my dear friends Matt Bauder provide a baritone saxophone solo on “We Met Them by the Water.” That song is more of a summer piece. Matt, Colin, and I all studied music together at the University of Michigan. So, I had Matt on Bari and Colin and soprano and I played tenor on all of the tracks to have a consistent sound across the album. And, on alto, I had Ian Hendrickson-Smith who plays with the Roots and used to play with the Dap-Kings. There is another list of sax players that I greatly wanted to give more space to in the music. Every time I think about all of the players of the group and the different ways they improvise and shape melodies, it makes me want to record more music to provide new environments. 

PG: One last question. You worked with David Byrne before. Do you have any thoughts on how your experience with him may have shaped this album?

SB: I played on the St. Vincent and David Byrne album with all the brass [Love This Giant (4AD, 2012)]. I couldn’t do the tour to promote the album, but I ended up working with Byrne later on a thing he did called Contemporary Color. I was part of a small ensemble that backed up pieces with Byrne, St. Vincent, Dev Hynes, Blood Orange, Nelly Furtado, Ad-Rock, and Money Mark from the Beastie Boys. All kinds of people came in and did stuff for a color guard group. The color guard artists were intense and incredible. It was an amazing project and also produced a cool documentary film. Also when I was playing with Arcade Fire, Byrne came and performed with us. Actually, one of the percussionists in the Bogie Band, Mauro Refosco, is part of David Byrne’s American Utopia. And they’re good friends. It sounds like it’s a wonderful experience working with him.

As far as my own experiences with Byrne, he’s another artist who inspires you to have the courage to follow through on what you’re drawn to and not let fear or little compromises destroy the momentum of your music. Get that nice, weird idea out into the world just as it came into your dreams.

The Bogie Band featuring Joe Russo’s The Prophets in the City is now available on Royal Potato Family. It can be purchased on Bandcamp or in our Amazon Affiliate Store.

More information on Stuart Bogie can be found on his website.