Rebooting the Connection : A Conversation with Ronnie Foster (Part One)

While Fats Waller, Count Basie, and Wild Bill Davis charted the organ trio’s course across the 1920s, 1930s, and 1940s, the format did not hit its zenith until the late 1950s. Central to the emergence of the organ trio was the rise of soul jazz, an amalgamation of influences from jazz, blues, soul, gospel, and rhythm and blues that seems destined to be the soundtrack of a late-night session in a smoke-filled bar or club. While many labels released several fine soul jazz organ recordings during the 1950s and 1960s, Blue Note largely stood above the rest, partly because it was the home of the king: Jimmy Smith. Through his over twenty Blue Note albums released between 1958 to 1963, it is no exaggeration to say that Smith essentially invented the modern soul jazz organ. In the process, Blue Note picked up even more followers enamored with the label’s clear, warm, and distinct aesthetics that were ripe for the organ. After Smith left for Verve in 1962, Blue Note began releasing- along with Smith albums in their vault – music by other masters of the Hammond B3, including Big John Patton and Jack McDuff. Larry Young tied the soul jazz tradition to the burgeoning jazz-rock fusions and experimental music scenes. All of this gets us to Ronnie Foster. By the time Foster signed with Blue Note in the early 1970s, many thought that the soul jazz organ trio was a relic of an era past. As George Benson noted in Benson: The Autobiography (Da Capo, 2014), by the time Ronnie came on the scene, “organs were going the way of the Model T.” But if Foster’s Reboot (Blue Note, 2022) is any indication, the soul jazz organ trio is still a road-ready, well-oiled machine. It’s just been restored and upgraded over the years. 

Reboot’s direct connection to the Blue Note organ lineage is most evident on “Swingin’,” a scorcher that recalls the vibrancy of the environments in which soul jazz thrived. Driven by Jimmy Brantly’s high octane drums, the piece sits comfortably alongside the ancestors of the idiom. The influence of 50s and 60s soul jazz is less apparent on Reboot’s other tracks, though nonetheless present. 

Since his debut, Two Headed Freap (Blue Note, 1972), Foster has always focused on transporting the contributions of artists like Jimmy Smith to other realms. A perfect example exists in “Mystic Brew,” whose slow groove straddled a line between soul jazz, R&B, and funk. The next generation heavily sampled the song, stretching the sonic family line further to acid jazz and hip hop. Five decades later, it seems Foster’s core mission remains unchanged. The steady groove of Reboot’s title track is similarly ripe for a future artist to sample. Three pieces bring the organ to Latin-influenced contexts. “Sultry Song II,” and “After Chicago” are particularly indebted to Bossa Nova and “Carlos” to Santana’s jazz-rock. On “J’s Dream” and “Hey Good Lookin’ Woman,” the organ’s relationship to church music and the blues is also further underscored. 

On the closer, “After Conversation with Nadia,” Foster puts aside his custom Hammond XK-5 to sit behind a grand piano. The piece is somewhat reminiscent of Keith Jarrett’s solo works; wistfully looking for a way to express the human condition through the resilience of the blues, the ecstasy of jazz, and the structure of classical music. The result, though unexpected, is a high point of the album. It is also a reminder that the soulfulness you hear in the organ trio is more than just a set of specific instruments. Remove the electricity, and the excitement remains. It is emotional substance, not flash or technology, which matters. 

In the first part of our conversation with Ronnie Foster, we discuss the significance of his return to Blue Note and his experiences with Jimmy Smith, Grant Green, Herbie Hancock, George Benson, and Dr. Lonnie Smith. In the second part, we go on a much deeper dive into Reboot. We also cover his relationships with Stevie Wonder, Carlos Santana, and Stanley Turrentine.

PostGenre: Reboot is your first new album since 1986. Why did it take 36 years to release a new record?

Ronnie Foster: There were times I thought I wanted to do other projects during those years, but I ended up going into some production work for a while. I was just more in the mood to produce than perform. I also wrote for other people, which I enjoy a lot. I write a lot of music; I have enough written at home to make up 20 hours of recordings. But recording a new album was not at the front of my mind.

At some point [Blue Note Records President] Don [Was] and I were talking, and he mentioned that if I wanted to come back to the label, it would be huge. I thought it was beautiful the label would take me back so openly. It’s been great. I’m very excited to be back at Blue Note, and I’m humbled at the same time that such an impressive label decided to sign me almost fifty years after I left.

PG: While you have not released an album since 1986, it has been even longer since you recorded one for Blue Note. When George Butler left in 1975 to go to Columbia, you went with him. Did you always plan on going back to Blue Note at some point?

RF: No, it just came up later. I was so busy with other things. Returning to Blue Note, or recording for any label, was not something I had in the back of my mind. I named the album Reboot because it is effectively a reboot of my recording career.  

PG: To better understand this reboot, it may be helpful to first discuss your prior projects. For instance, while you are known primarily as an organist, you also play piano on Reboot’s “After Conversation with Nadia.” The piano was your first instrument, correct?

RF: Yes, I started on piano. I spoke to someone else recently, and he asked about my classical training. But, I wasn’t classically trained. That’s misinformation. Apparently, I said in one interview long ago that, as a kid, there was a piano in our house, and I would use it to pretend that I was a classical pianist. I was only 4 or 5 at the time. I would play a very basic motif common to classical music, but that was about it. How that morphed into my having classical training is beyond me. 

PG: Actually, the only formal music performance education you had was a month of accordion lessons.

RF: That’s right. I was raised by my grandfather in Buffalo, New York. There was a guy who would go door to door selling accordion lessons for the music school across the street from where I lived. He came and visited my grandfather, asking if any children in the home would like to take lessons. I took lessons for a month and had fun, but it wasn’t anything really heavy. The music school had an arrangement with the drugstore nearby where if you took lessons you could get a bag of lifesavers for free. After about a month, I just stopped taking lessons. 

PG: What about the melodica? While you do not play the melodica on Reboot, its influences do show up, in a way.

RF: The melodica story is pretty cool. When I was growing up in Buffalo, there was a club there named The Royal Arms. I knew the owner, and he knew that I loved music. Sometimes he would sneak me into concerts at the club. I had to stay in the corner of the room so as not to interfere with people who paid to see the show. But that corner had the perfect view of the stage.

One night in the summer of 1963, Miles [Davis] came to The Royal Arms with George Coleman, Ron [Carter], Tony [Williams], and Herbie [Hancock]. It was before Wayne [Shorter] joined the group. I was 13 at the time. After their set, I went backstage with a melodica and found Herbie. I was growing tired of turning around chord progressions on the blues, so I decided to ask Herbie if he had any ideas. Herbie asked me to hand him the melodica, and he showed me some chord changes on it. Jump forward almost 60 years, and Herbie and I have been friends forever. And I still use the progression he taught me. If you listen to “Swingin’” on Reboot, I play the progression when heading back home. I can’t wait to play it for Herbie and see if he remembers it.

PG: You are probably best known for your work on the organ. Is there something about the organ that speaks to you more than these other instruments?

RF: They each speak to me in different ways. I played keyboards and piano with [George] Benson. But the organ is my base. It is my roots. The organ has been the instrument I have played the most. I started when I was 10 or 11 years old. A friend of mine was a drummer in my hometown of Buffalo, and we played together through school, with myself on piano. One day, my friend’s mother offered to bring us down to a jam session at a club in town. The problem when we got there was that they did not have a piano, only a Hammond B3 organ. I sat down and used whatever the last two settings were. Fortunately, whoever played it last had set it in a way very comfortable for me to play. 

PG: So, it was luck that led to the organ.

RF: After that, I was hooked. Seriously hooked. I started regularly going down to the Hammond dealer in downtown Buffalo. You could pay fifty cents to use the organ for half an hour. At some point, the dealer told me that he wouldn’t limit me to only a half-hour. I could play as long as I wanted for the fifty cents, so long as no one else showed up to try to use it. It was great. 

PG: And then, shortly after, you ran into Jimmy Smith.

RF: That goes back, again, to The Royal Arms. When Jimmy came to town, I wanted to meet and learn from him. Jimmy was the master of the organ. Even though he died in 2005, he is still the master. We all wanted to be like him. 

I asked the owner of The Royal Arms where Jimmy was staying. I called Jimmy at his hotel and asked him to teach me something. Jimmy’s response was, “Boy, when you hear me play, you’re gonna want to throw your organ away.”

PG: He was making sure you were serious about the instrument.

RF: Right. The next day I met him at the club, and the rest is history. We had a very beautiful relationship, and he was very kind to me. 

PG: Once he realized you were serious about the music.

RF: I mean, he took the music seriously. Understandably, he would expect the same of his students. Jimmy had a club in North Hollywood [California]. I used to hang out there all the time. His wife made the best soul food too. Man, you want to talk about fried chicken; hers was the best. Once, I even took Stevie [Wonder] there for a jam session. I played the bass line, and Stevie soloed on top of it. 

One time I went down to Jimmy’s Supper Club after I hadn’t seen Jimmy in a while. When I came into the club, the band was on a break. I asked the guitarist, Phil Upchurch, where I could find Jimmy. It turned out he was backstage. When I found Jimmy, he was sitting in a chair and looked extremely tired. He also looked like he had aged a lot since I had seen him last. You could tell he was exhausted and did not have much energy left. But he went out for the second set, and his playing was incredible. His genius was on full display. I wish I could feel that tired. [laughing]. He just put everything he had into the music. 

PG: And your time with Jimmy led to your working with George Benson.

RF: Right. Jimmy introduced me to George. George and I started hanging out. When I was 15, I started playing with him on the weekends. And those experiences with George took my career on a certain path for which I am very grateful.

PG: In his autobiography, George said that “the second I heard [Ronnie] play, I knew the kid was a genius, and I honestly believed that if he worked hard and stayed on a good path, he’d end up being one of the greatest jazz musicians of all time.” Are there any younger musicians you view the same way George saw you?

RF: Yes. With the rise of social media, too many musicians are trying to just play as fast as they can and not say much in their music. Where’s the emotion? As I always say, one note void of emotion equals zero. 

Someone who does not rely on flash is Joey Alexander. He’s young, but Joey shows maturity in his performance and is very connected to the substance of his music. There is no question about how well he can play but, with him, it’s not about trying to prove anything. His music is coming from a beautiful place. Though Joey’s my favorite young pianist, there are others as well. I like Cory Henry. Also, Wil Blades. I wouldn’t say Wil is up and coming – he’s been around for a while – but he is starting to get more attention for his music. 

PG: So, musically, flash does nothing for you. 

RF: A beautiful clarity comes from the foundation of being emotionally connected to your music. That’s a guide I use a lot in gauging people’s music. Emotional connection is essential. I have a quick story about Dr. Lonnie Smith. In addition to being an organ master, Lonnie was my homie. We are both from Buffalo, and he was always very supportive. 

PG: You’ve even dedicated Reboot to Lonnie.

RF: Right. Once we were both at a booth at a NAMM [National Association of Music Merchants] show, and a young kid came up to us, wanting to show us something on the organ. We let him, and he ended up playing something very flashy with little substance. He asked us what we thought of it and Lonnie’s response was “Did you really mean that?” [laughing]. Ultimately, if you’re going to go through the work of figuring out the technical stuff, use it correctly. 

PG: Some critics have suggested George Benson’s music can be “flashy.”

RF: I have heard people say that, but it does not make sense. George plays fast, but that’s just part of who he is. Even while playing fast, his music is still saying something. He’s just saying it quickly. [laughing]

PG: Reboot was recorded at Capitol Studios. The first time you went there was to record Breezin’ (Warner Bros, 1976).

RF: Right, and [Benson’s] In Flight (Warner Bros., 1977). 

PG: Did you have a sense, when recording Breezin’, of how big the album would ultimately become? 

RF: We were proud of the music we were making. Recording that album was a very beautiful experience. We knew it was unique. George singing on “This Masquerade” was certainly different. Of course, that was with my late friend, Jorge Dalto, on keys.

The song I wrote for the album, “Lady,” I composed with George in mind. When I first presented it to him, we discussed the melody only very briefly. He didn’t play it until we were in the studio and did an incredible job with it. The whole foundation of working with George at that time was that you felt freedom. If you felt something musically, you just played it. Many times, the ideas that came from those experiments pushed the band in a different direction. I think you can sense that on Weekend in L.A. (Warner Bros., 1978). On that album’s version of “On Broadway,” you can hear me on the mini Moog developing a theme before it becomes the line. 

PG: But Benson is far from the only iconic guitarist with whom you have worked. You also recorded with Grant Green on his first live album, Alive! (Blue Note, 1970); your first record. You also were on the posthumously released Live at Club Mozambique (Blue Note, 2006). What did you enjoy most about working with Grant?

RF: Well, like Jimmy, Grant was one of my heroes. I grew up listening to his records, especially Grant’s First Stand (Blue Note, 1961) and his recordings with Elvin Jones, like Talkin’ About! (Blue Note, 1964). But it wasn’t until around the time I started working with him that he started getting into the really funky stuff. A lot of the time I played with him was about building his newer funky style. He was very serious, which is a good thing, about getting the sound he was seeking. 

Of course, Grant is also one of George’s main influences, along with Wes [Montgomery] and Charlie Christian. And it was because of Grant that I had the first chance to record my own album with Blue Note. [Label co-founder] Francis Wolff came to see the group and, at the end of our second night, asked if I would like to have a record deal. Before I could record with Blue Note, Francis died. I reached out to the label’s new President, George Butler to tell him of my deal with Francis. He offered to come and see my group perform and, if he liked what he heard, to sign us. He came by a club we were playing at in Detroit. It was about 3:00 in the morning. He ended up signing me after hearing the song “Chunky.”

PG: It must have been wild to go from growing up listening to so many great albums on Blue Note by Jimmy Smith and Grant Green to not only working with them, but recording for their label. 

RF: To be honest, I was a little freaked out about it. Even today, it is humbling to be part of Blue Note’s great organ tradition. I knew I wanted to be a musician since I was in the fourth grade. To still be making music – sixty years later and for Blue Note – is incredible.

Click here for Part Two of our Conversation with Ronnie where we go on a deeper dive into Reboot. We also discuss the significance of his legendary album, Two Headed Freap (Blue Note, 1972) turning fifty,  Ronnie’s work with Stevie Wonder, Stanley Turrentine, and much more.

Reboot will be available on Blue Note Records on July 15, 2022. It can be pre-ordered on the label’s website. A special fiftieth anniversary vinyl of Two Headed Freap is also now available.

More Information on Ronnie Foster can be found on his website.