Roots to Infinity: A Conversation with Donald Harrison, Jr. (Part One)

While the history of improvised music is replete with works of artistic brilliance, such recordings seldom reach outside the confines of their usual audiences. It is not merely difficult but near impossible for improvisation-laced instrumental music to resonate with the larger popular culture. But there are always exceptions. One of these rare recordings is Herbie Hancock’s Head Hunters (Columbia, 1973). The first “jazz” album to obtain platinum status, Head Hunters,  once peaked at number 13 on the Billboard 200. This success did not come at the cost of artistic daring, as critics have similarly praised the album over the years. The recording is even in the Library of Congress’s National Recording Registry, a recognition of “cultural[], historical[], or aesthetic[] important[ance]” among the most elite recordings of the 20th century. Essential to Head Hunters’ success was its capability to present music that spans different eras and styles. That same power makes the Headhunters’ Speakers in the House (Ropeadope, 2022) a compelling work. 

Given the group’s reliance on synthesizers and funky grooves, it is easy to overlook how connected the 1970s incarnations of the Headhunters were to the roots of music. But the reality is that what made Head Hunters so readily understandable to audiences was how grounded the group’s ideas were even if they, at times, sounded otherworldly. As Hancock notes in his autobiography, “[i]f Mwandishi had worked with an intergalactic palette, [the Headhunters] worked with an earthy one.” A perfect example of this is “Watermelon Man.” A once straight-ahead standard adopts a funky groove while percussionist Bill Summers imitates the hindewho, an instrument of the Mbuti Pygmies of Northeastern Zaire. This single track closes gaps between African music, straight-ahead instrumental jazz, and the then somewhat nascent jazz-funk “fusion” form. 

In the decades since the Headhunters’ first album, Summers has kept the group alive, along with help from drummer Mike Clark who first joined the ensemble on Thrust (Columbia, 1974). The Headhunters’ sound has changed over the years to encompass new sounds and ideas, but the band’s primary focus on connecting the past and present has remained unchanged.  

With the passing of almost a half-century since the Headhunters’ formation, it is appropriate to reexamine the group’s legacy and its impact on younger artists. One excellent case study can be found in Donald Harrison, Jr. A young man in the mid-1970s, Harrison had not yet dedicated himself to a musical career but found the Headhunters’ pull nevertheless undeniable. While more indebted to Grover Washington Jr.’s music for his picking up the saxophone, one must wonder whether Harrison’s career-long emphasis on connecting the past, present, and future derives partly from his experiences listening to the Headhunters. He has spent decades examining temporal connections, from his role as a young pupil of some of the music’s most important voices to instilling musical virtues to future generations. Along the way, he created his own musical style, Nouveau Swing, which blurs modern jazz, funk, hip-hop, and soul music.

Although Speakers in the House is Harrison’s second record with the Headhunters, it seems as though the saxophonist was custom suited for this album. While the Headhunters have borrowed ideas from many different kinds of music over the years, Speakers is the group’s most overt statement on its indebtedness to the historical ties that run through New Orleans. “Kongo Square” emphasizes the importance of the birthplace of modern music by combining Harrison’s modern horn with the more ancient kora. “Rocking at the Mole House” draws parallels between the second line tradition and dub and Caribbean music, whereas “Stoop” pulls into New Orleans’ history of instrumental R&B. Speakers is an enjoyable listen at a cursory level, but more fascinating and intriguing the deeper you dig.

While Summers is also a longtime resident of the Crescent City, it is nearly impossible to discuss the history of modern New Orleans music without discussing Harrison’s role in it. As Big Chief of the Congo Square Nation, Harrison is a part of a long lineage that traces back generations in the city’s culture. Yet, at the same time, he has proved a critical figure in mentoring young artists at the center of contemporary New Orleans musical culture, including Jon Batiste, Christian Scott aTunde Adjuah, and Trombone Shorty. His work with the next generation of artists has been so impactful it even earned Harrison the title of NEA Jazz Master, one of the highest honors that can be bestowed upon a jazz musician.

In this first part of our discussion with Harrison, we cover the new album, the legacy of the Headhunters, Nouveau Swing, Charlie Parker, Big Bill Broonzy, and the importance of transgenerational musical dialogue. 

PostGenre: You were twelve or thirteen when the original Head Hunters album came out. Do you remember the first time you heard the Headhunters?

Donald Harrison: Of course. Everywhere you could imagine, the Headhunters were blasting back then. I remember hearing “Chameleon” and “Watermelon Man” and some other songs on what they called urban radio. Jazz radio played at my house all the time.

I loved the band’s songs. I wasn’t a musician back when I first heard them, but every time their music came on, I dug it. And in those days, the [radio stations] would play long versions of the songs. You could hear a fifteen-minute version of “Chameleon” on the radio. Now everything is three minutes or less if, by some miracle, instrumental music even gets played at all. 

I’ve always loved the Headhunters’ music. I’ve had the opportunity to play with the Funky Meters and some of the members of The J.B.s. I’ve also played with Cannonball Adderley’s brother, Nat Adderley, who made so many great records with Cannonball and came up with the tune “Work Song.” I’ve been able to work with a lot of guys that I’ve listened to on the radio while I was growing up. When I was a youth, before I played music, I wanted to play with them. The Headhunters is one of the greatest groups to ever mix jazz music into a funky groove. 

PG: How did you become a part of the group?

DH: Well, I met Bill Summers down in New Orleans. The first thing he did was ask me to come and play on some of their recordings. When they started traveling, they asked me to play on the road with them. Paul Jackson was on bass, Mike Clark on drums, and, back then, Bill Summers was on keyboards. Once, Herbie [Hancock] came and played with us, and it was the thrill of a lifetime to play with all of those great musicians at the same time. And I still get to play with Mike and Bill in this new aggregation of the Headhunters they are putting together now.

PG: As the wind player, you essentially took the role in the Headhunters once held by Bennie Maupin. 

DH: You would have to ask Bill and Mike about that. I never really think of it that way. I ultimately have the utmost respect for this band and its musicians who changed the course of music. I was honored they invited me to participate and get an idea of what it feels like to play with them.

PG: What do you think it is about Bill and Mike’s relationship that has allowed the group, albeit in different forms over the years, to continue for soon-to-be fifty years?

DH: Well, they are both cutting-edge musicians who are still searching. They are some of the originators of the things that three generations of musicians are now doing. 

It is incredibly important that we musicians make sure our music touches the younger generations. Just as the Headhunters have innovated musically, many younger artists are trying to innovate as well. Groups like the Headhunters must be placed at the forefront. Musically, they are out front already, but the media does not always notice. We need publications like Downbeat and those in the mainstream media to pick up on what this band is doing to shape the future of music again. A lot of jazz media’s coverage now is on younger people. It’s great that younger artists have been given a chance and hopefully they will keep getting attention for their work during the rest of their careers. But, at the same time, it seems like the universe is missing out on an opportunity for the music on this album [Speakers in the House] to touch people. The music also allows other musicians to hear how what they are doing is connected to the tradition. Even hip-hop musicians can hear the Headhunters and think to themselves, “oh man, this brother played ideas like mine but from an OG perspective.” 

PG: The fact you straddle those two generations is part of what makes your perspective so fascinating. There are many artists who came before and so many newer ones trying to forge their own way. You often draw on the tradition and show it connects to the new ideas.

DH: I’m in the middle of it.

PG: Yeah. 

DH: And I love it. I play with younger musicians all the time. And, as I mention to younger musicians in my workshops, I’ve also played with musicians who were born in the 1800s and started playing jazz in the 1920s. My career spans the whole gamut of playing with people from every era of what is considered “jazz.” I don’t know how many more like that are left. Plus I am a Big Chief in a line that goes back to antiquity. 

I was lucky to be born at the right time to do all that. To me, the classic jazz era ended in the 90s. The younger guys have come up with ideas that are generally not based upon playing with the older musicians as I was able, and because of that difference, their ideas are just different. Great, but different. I was lucky enough to have a foot in both worlds. I have always been the guy to have a foot in all of the worlds, man.

PG: And in terms of playing with the greats, another band you are in is the Cookers. Other than that band sounding more traditional, is your experience with the Cookers similar to that with the Headhunters?

DH: They put different feelings into the music. The Cookers is a post-John Coltrane and post-Miles Davis era band that is heavily influenced by the ideas of both from the late 60s. The other guys in the Cookers and I played with many of the same groups because I caught the tail end of the musicians they had worked with before those people became ancestors. So, I am younger than the other guys in the Cookers but have had experiences similar to theirs. I’ve just been around so many people. [laughing]. I’ve been around so many great musicians that I can seem to find my way in pretty much any musical situation. And hopefully, I can take some points from each of those experiences and make a big musical smoothie, of sorts. 

PG: Your time with Art Blakey seems like a good example. 

DH: Yes, though, actually, I started with Roy Haynes. A lot of people don’t realize that. Roy told me that he heard a lot of the feeling of Charlie Parker in me when I was swinging. Roy hired me when I was nineteen and taught me a lot of the things that he was working on with Charlie Parker. He tried to teach me as much as he could about what it was like to be making music in the Bebop era. Art Blakey did the same thing. I was constantly asking Art about Bird and he was giving me the answers, as he perceived them. And all these years later, I am still practicing Charlie Parker. 

PG: Lately, you have been performing a version of Bird with Strings. Do you feel that project has changed your perspective on Parker at all?

DH: There is always more growth because of Charlie Parker’s relentless inclusion and invention. Bird had strong ideas about what he did musically. But he was also musically grounded. I came up with a phrase for people in that same category of artists who stretch the roots out to new ground: roots to infinity.

Some people don’t realize that Bird was a great Blues artist. Once [saxophonist] Eddie “Cleanhead” Vinson, another great Blues artist, pulled me aside and told me he was going to teach me the Blues, and that the only other person he had taught it to before was Charlie Parker. 

PG: Wow.

DH: Eddie had started with a guy named Big Bill Broonzy, who was like the Michael Jackson of the Blues. From my estimation, Broonzy was one of the first guys to take Blues into the worlds of R&B, Rock, and Soul music. And, as many people know, he is one of the fathers of Chicago Blues. He also made country blues. He was incredible. People should pay attention to his music, especially his recordings from the 30s when he started changing. He also recorded great stuff in the late 20s. But by the 30s, he was pulling together so many different styles of music. It is remarkable that one person could do that much. A lot of the things you hear various artists do musically in the 50s and 60s were already done by Broonzy decades before. And Eddie “Cleanhead” Vinson was able to show me all of those connections. 

PG: Two others you learned from were Alvin Batiste and Kidd Jordan, both legendary people when it comes to mentoring and growing new artists. Especially as someone who has mentored many artists, what do you feel you learned the most from Batiste and Jordan? 

DH: Well, both of those gentlemen focused on being yourself and putting yourself into a job. They both had great ideas about how to play your instrument since they were both virtuosos. I would say that Kidd Jordan was the first person who got me to think about trying to be a virtuoso on my instrument but also sound like myself, and Alvin Batiste furthered those ideas. I spent a year with Alvin Batiste, and one of the things he did was to get me to look at how to be proficient in playing ideas from anywhere so you have nothing holding you back. And those are all things I have tried to teach younger musicians as well.

PG: Going back to the Headhunters, while there may be some New Orleans cultural influences in the group’s music in the past, it seems Speakers in the House lays into those more than ever. Do you feel that is a fair assessment?

DH: I think New Orleans culture has always been a part of the group. You would have to ask Bill and Mike how much they intentionally placed it into past recordings. But the funk and soul elements you hear on earlier Headhunter recordings certainly have ties to New Orleans. Even early Motown records had a lot of New Orleans musicians on them, and the drummer who made up the James Brown beat got it from a New Orleans drummer. 

But you’re correct that this latest recording has a lot of New Orleans front and center. Traditional New Orleans beats are more present here. Mike has a very linear way of looking at things and certainly considered those things. But once again, it’s an important record, not just because I’m on it but because they are using New Orleans traditional music and adding new elements to it. It is all about taking lessons learned from the past and building off of them by applying new ideas as well. 

PG: Which, in a way, ties back to Bill’s other project, Forward Back. The idea behind that band is to look to the past to move music forward.

DH: Yeah. Back to the future. Right now, I’m working on what I call a multiversal way of looking at music. I’ve shared the idea with some young musicians who have said they will use it. The idea is all about connecting the dots between all the great musicians in history. My Nouveau Swing concept approaches this idea as well. Many younger musicians – Jon Batiste, my nephew [Chief Xian aTunde Adjuah (formerly Christian Scott)], Christian McBride, and Esperanza Spalding among them – have also worked at taking the ideas of tradition to new places with fresh and brilliant new ideas. It’s a beautiful thing, and we’re all connected. 

PG: Since you mentioned it, how did you come up with Nouveau Swing?

DH: Well, I first related to music through dancing. I wanted to bring a dance element to the acoustic jazz with which I grew up. One day I heard so many connections between different kinds of music since they are all connected. And once I noticed those connections, everything came together. It became easy and just delightful. I am really happy because people can dance to my music now that I’ve emphasized those connections. We played at the Chicago Jazz Festival this past September. People in the audience were out on the grass dancing to the music and that is great. I couldn’t see them but heard that they were dancing. It’s rare to see people dancing to acoustic jazz music. But I could see some people in the seats closer to the stage dancing as well. It was joyous to see people dancing to the music. And, of course, some other people were intellectualizing the music. There are so many different ways people approach music, and I wanted all of those elements to be in the music again when I created Nouveau Swing. 

When the album Nouveau Swing (Impulse!, 1997) came out, a woman came to me and told me she was listening to the record, and the next thing she knew she was dancing around the house cleaning. She was just dancing to the music, man. And most of the music that came from Africa was dance music. I feel like that element of dance needs to be present, as does the element of the Blues. To me, those things should never be left behind. People will then take out of it what they want to do with it. All of it is valid and all of it is beautiful. 

PG: When you first came out with the Nouveau Swing concept, it seemed a lot of people were upset about the end of your group with Terence Blanchard and that you were going in a new direction. 

DH: Yeah, at the time, a lot of guys made jokes. But they understand it now and want to do it themselves. I never got upset about their comments because I knew that the Nouveau Swing idea was what I wanted to do, at least in terms of a big-picture idea. 

I mean, people got upset with Charlie Parker. They got upset at John Coltrane. And now everyone loves both of them. At the time, Charlie Parker had a rough time, and it wasn’t easy to stretch chords the way he did. And they accused Coltrane of being “anti-jazz.” That is just the nature of anything new. Any new idea gets all the slings and arrows but, if they are valid, they catch on. These ideas have caught on. The older I get, the more I know that. But I will keep trying to say what I know about things, and hopefully, if there is something to it, people will understand. But you can’t make everyone understand everything right away. You need to be ready for that. 

PG: Going back to your mention earlier of music from Africa, on Speakers in the House there is a track called “Kongo Square,” which features koraist Fode Sissoko. Is this the first time you have recorded with a kora?

DH: Yeah. Bill just played the recording of the kora part. I listened to what [Fode] was doing and tried to match him in some instances and take it further from a jazzman’s perspective in others. It was a wonderful experience getting to see how those lines are put together on the kora. It added another dimension to who I am and, hopefully, I added to the song. 

PG: And, of course, “Kongo Square” is named after an essential place in the history of music. Particularly as the Big Chief of the Congo Square Nation, is there anything about Congo Square that you think people either do not fully realize or misunderstand?

DH: Well, all I can say is that I don’t know who may or may not understand it, but Congo Square is one of the incubators of the culture and the sound of music. It is a root source for many things you hear in all kinds of music today. It formed the music of New Orleans and almost every genre of music in New Orleans, which has, in turn, influenced musicians from all over the world. Without Congo Square, we would not have the past and present ways New Orleans music was put together. People still come down to study tribal culture and second-line music, which I call offshoots of cultures that developed through Congo Square. Jazz music and others are influenced directly by the music that came from Congo Square. Congo Square was the only place in America where you could openly gather with people from tribal affiliations and participate in your culture. 

PG: And you can still sense how special Congo Square is even though it’s changed over the years. 

DH: It is one of the ground-zero places in the world for culture and music. The way New Orleans culture formed from there is hopefully the way humanity will go. So many different cultures were all brought together. Nobody had a problem with different musical ideas melding together. Nobody told anyone else to play something. It was all about what you, as an individual, want to do. Congo Square is a place of transcendence. Most of the people in Congo Square were being persecuted, but Congo Square allowed them to transcend to another place where all those things were gone. That transcendence is a part of the music that is very necessary. When other people who were not of that culture heard the music from Congo Square, they transcended it as well. And once you get that piece of peace and are transcended, what do you do? You have got to go back. Even if not persecuted to the same extent, everyone has trials and tribulations in their life. If you can give them moments of being in a blissful state where everything is gone but the purity of peace and joy, who wouldn’t love to be a part of that?

Click here for part two of our conversation with Donald Harrison where we discuss New Orleans culture, Dr. John, Miles Davis, Notorious BIG, and more.

The Headhunters’ Speakers in the House is now available on Ropeadope. It can be purchased on Bandcamp.

More information on Donald Harrison, Jr. can be found on his website.

Photo credit: Michael Weintrob