Spirit Walking: A Conversation with Luke Stewart

There is something mysterious about a river. As Eartha Kitt noted, “The river is constantly turning and bending and you never know where it’s going to go and where you’ll wind up.” Its inconsistency makes the water both frightening and liberating. For the many who have lost their lives in the current, generations have seen their passage as a path to freedom. Even the sonic properties of the water flow are, almost contradictorily, stable yet variable. The sounds of currents change to match their surroundings yet always have a misleadingly consistent seeming aesthetic. The place of a river as an intermediary between change and consistency makes Unknown Rivers (Pi, 2024) such an excellent title for bassist Luke Stewart’s second Silt Trio outing.

Like the sediment from which the group derives its name, the Silt Trio provides a ground upon which wild abandon can pass through. This foundation is built upon the contribution of elders and ancestors who have created, grown, and propelled forward the great Black American musical form. This group includes several of Stewart’s collaborators, such as Archie Shepp, Wadada Leo Smith, D56aniel Carter, Hamiet Bluiett, and David Murray. These luminaries forged paths that freed music from its past by expanding ideas of melody, harmony, and timbre. These influences are evident throughout Unknown Rivers. The instrumentation of tenor saxophone, drums, and bass recalls Sonny Rollins’ chordless trio or Albert Ayler’s Spiritual Unity. The album splits between two slightly different lineups – with half featuring Trae Crudup and the rest with Chad Taylor on drums – a nod to Blue Note classics. But most importantly, Unknown Rivers continues to build compositionally upon its predecessors.

But remember, silt is not a hard surface. It is malleable and changes to accommodate its environment. As much as Unknown Rivers is indebted to the music’s past, it is equally focused on its future. The trio thrives on responding live to its course. As the group converses, their thoughts are free to wind and form new conceptual streams. In this larger topographical map, pre-existing perceptions of rhythm stretch as well, forming hithertofore uncharted tracks. Lucky listeners can experience the group live, joined by special guests Jonathan Finlayson and Tomas Fujiwara, at Roulette on September 12, 2024. 

PostGenre: The Silt Trio recently performed at the Newport Jazz Festival. What was your experience there? 

Luke Stewart: Well, first of all, being highlighted at a venerated and historic festival is fantastic. My experience playing it was great. We opened the entire festival which felt like an honor. Christian McBride was amazing to work with and to have him be there. Everything else and everybody else there was also great to work with and very accessible. We were able to put forth a real and true artistic statement at the festival. We’re really honored to have been able to do that at such a forum and to present the approach to the music that we are coming from and to do so in a very special way. 

PG: The group sounded fantastic. You will also be performing at Roulette on September 12th. How do you feel the trio’s music has changed the most since you recorded Unknown Rivers as you have continued to perform it live? 

LS: We’ve got a chance to develop quite a bit since then. The music all comes from our experiences of being together. The musical material comes from our time together on the road. The first half of the album, with Trae [Crudup] on drums, was recorded in the studio, but done right after we had come off a tour in Europe. And then, of course, the Chad Taylor session [that makes up the second half of the album] was recorded live, as you can hear on the album. Basically, what you hear on the album is the result of the road and developments while touring. And that process has continued as we also develop new compositions and new sounds; as we have expanded concepts and explored the further connections that we all have in the music and in the community. I think the Roulette show will be a good example of how we continue to develop. 

PG: Since you mentioned how there were two different drummers on the album, was it always your intent to split it in half between stuff with Chad and stuff with Trae, or is that just how things came together? 

LS:  Yeah, that’s kind of just how it all came together, to be honest. But I like that it has both Trae and Chad. That aspect kind of harkens back also to some of those old classic albums in jazz, where they have different lineups on each side. Or even a different group for a single track.I thought that this was a cool opportunity to do that too by presenting essentially two different bands on the same album but with a unified concept. 

PG: Both of the trios are called the Silt Trio. So, you see both as different presentations of the same thing instead of two distinct groups? 

LS: I would say that they are different presentations of the same thing more so than two completely different things. The similar concept is there for both of them. It’s been beautiful to be able to present these two different aspects within the same musical concept and to explore those personal and musical connections that we have together. 

PG: You also work with Trae as the duo Blacks’ Myths. Do you feel the way the two of you communicate with that project is similar to how you communicate in the trio? 

LS: Absolutely, just because we have a depth of, or a breadth of, experience together across different concepts. From that, we have a telepathy that’s been developed over many years and many different situations. 

But it’s the same thing with the others in the trio. Chad’s more part of my New York City journey, but we’ve collaborated in many different situations in New York and [Philadelphia]. Obviously, we also share a connection with jaimie branch. And it has been an even deeper connection with [saxophonist]  Brian [Settles]. So, yes, the whole band has a rapport with one another in various ways, and you can hear us coming together collectively and the connectivity between us in the music itself. 

PG: As far as the messages that emerge from the group, the trio is called the Silt Trio. The latest album is called Unknown Rivers and features a lava flow on its cover. Do you typically draw inspiration from nature?

LS: Yes, very much so. 

As a professional touring musician, you are constantly traveling and dealing with different time zones, early calls, and late nights on the bandstand. There is also a significant mental and physical preparation that’s required on the road. Especially with the high energy music that I tend to play and am involved in. The unwritten or under-regarded aspect of all that is how taxing it can all be, both mentally and physically. 

Nature, oftentimes, is my respite. It’s a place to connect to wherever it is that we’re playing. Being in nature is also a way for me to connect to a place and a people. It allows me to think about the histories of particular places and particular locations and notice the importance of the moments where we are in the world. Nature is a very important aspect of my artistry. I definitely have a practice of, I’d say, spirit walking. 

PG: In the liner notes to Unknown Rivers, you mention that rhythm is too often forgotten in creative music. Do you have a sense of why that happens to be the case? 

LS: I don’t know why that’s the case. I wrote that as we were coming out of the pandemic. I had noticed, as a follower of the music, the depths of exploration that have come in the realm of sound. There have been many explorations and innovations in the realm of just pure sound. But, for my ears, it would seem that there hasn’t been as much of a focus on rhythm.  I think now is a good time and opportunity to translate those beautiful explorations of sound into explorations and rhythm and natural rhythm. It is time to dig into rhythms that might seem complicated on paper but still feel natural and like they’re coming from a human place. I think that, having the blessing and the fortune of working with so many great drummers, it behooves me to try to explore in this fashion. 

PG: As a bass player, someone who plays an instrument in the “rhythm section”, do you feel you have a better perspective on things like rhythm than, say, a horn player? 

LS: I don’t know about that. Again, I’ve been in many musical situations where it’s more of an exploration of sounds rather than rhythm. I think bass is one of those beautiful instruments within the so-called “rhythm section” that is more easily or more naturally focused on – by virtue of its being a large string instrument  – many different “extended techniques” that are unique to itself. Those too are still worthy of lots of exploration. But I think that it’s cool and interesting to potentially be  able to put some messages across in the music through adding a more intentional exploration of rhythm on top of the exploration of sound. I believe that the possibilities that could result from doing that are potentially powerful. 

PG: To ask you about another project, your solo Works For Upright Bass and Amplifier albums are fantastic. What do you feel you learned the most from that project?

LS: I learned quite a bit doing that project and it continues. I’ve learned so many things. Sonically, I learned how to very purposefully set up a situation where I would have room to explore in a raw sense. I approached the bass in a completely different way. There’s a lot of creative room there, a lot of exploratory room for dealing with the aspect of the electronic properties of the amplifier. The physical proximity properties of the bass, coupled with the amplifier and tied to the position of the bass through the amplifier allowed me to explore the extended sonic properties of the bass coupled with the electronic element of the amplifier. 

Also, movement is necessary to make the music happen. That project has also really made me think about my body and its position and relationship to the instrument. It’s about becoming one with the whole apparatus and finding ways to move within that to create not just the music, but also a kind of dance. It isn’t overtly a dance but the resulting effect is that it looks like a kind of dance. That relationship between my body and the instrument is something that I’ve also then translated into projects with duets and larger ensembles. 

PG: How so?

LS: I think about all of those things I just mentioned in relationship to other people, to a large group of other people who are doing a similar thing in their way and meshing that all together to create a special and unique musical experience. 

But from the experience of putting together the solo works, I also learned how to harness natural properties. There is the natural acoustic sound of the double bass. But there are also the natural electrical elements from using the amplifier as electricity is also a property of nature. With that project, I have learned how you can hone in on those natural elements of electricity.

PG: And one thing that is interesting about your approach to playing bass is that you came to music on a less conventional path than studying in a conservatory or jazz school. You were a DJ at a radio station and also became artistic director and a co-founder of Capital Bop. How do you feel those experiences may have shaped how you approach musical performance? 

LS: I’m thankful for my journey because I went to what was, for me, the best music school that I could have gone to, which was a combination of working at a community radio station that focused on jazz and justice and all of their extensions and connecting with the community. Working for the station made me learn about the music and the community and connect with that community in a very deep way. 

And then being able to couple that with eventually presenting music through Capitol Bop gave me a perspective on the music as a presenter, as well. It let me see how the music works and how it can work. And I ultimately found myself  in a position of responsibility over a small sector of the community, which offers a different perspective on the music. 

And part of it was that with Capitol Bop, we have presented music in a less traditional way. In the same way that the AACM formed as a reaction to the jazz club system, one of the aspects of our founding was a reaction to the perspective that you have to play a particular kind of music, have a two drink minimum, and present expensive shows. We have gone against those things to make a more egalitarian scenario for the music that focuses on original music and not just standards or straight ahead mainstream sorts of things. 

PG: Since you mentioned the connection between justice and jazz, you previously worked with Archie Shepp. Do you see your music as a continuation of his in that sense?

LS: Well, I’m definitely deeply influenced by this individual and others. Again, part of my own music schooling was that I was able to be a part of the community that explored the Fire Music of Archie Shepp and the works of others. And my works have connected with that legacy as well. So yeah, he’s definitely a deep influence. And it’s beautiful to have found, coming from a non-traditional route to the music and to this life, connections with community guided studies of the tradition and music. 

PG: As a final question, you are also in Irreversible Entanglements. What do you enjoy most about that group? 

LS: Well, we’re a family. We’re a very tight knit musical family. We’ve been through a lot of different things together in dealing with music and community. We all came together representing so many different and distinctive aspects of community organizing and political action. We have been able to create a strong experience based on all of our separate experiences in the community and the music. And we give ourselves freedom as we explore these things. Just as I found myself in a place of responsibility over various aspects of community through music, as a group, we find ourselves in the position of responsibility over a legacy, a sound, and an approach toward music. We have been able to reach more people and to share the deep and life and societal changing implications of music.

Luke Stewart Silt Trio’s ‘Unknown Rivers’ is out now on Pi Recordings. It can be purchased on Bandcamp. The trio, augmented with Jonathan Finlayson and Tomas Fujiwara, will be performing at Roulette on September 12, 2024. Tickets are available here. The performance will also be livestreamed. More information on Luke Stewart can be found on his website.