Ancient to the Future: A Conversation with Michael Wimberly on ‘Afrofuturism’ (Part One)

Michael Wimberly’s musical career can be seen as focused on minimizing the gaps between different styles and forms of art. A significant amount of his compositions have been to support dance troupes and classes including the Martha Graham School of Dance, Alvin Ailey American Dance Theatre, and Joffrey II Ballet. He’s also provided music for fashion designer Donna Karan’s shows as well as for various films, theater performances, and poets. Even if one is to ignore these aspects of his work, his musical path still shows an immense range. Wimberly has performed with an impressive list of other artists including Nels Cline, Bill Laswell, Dave Douglas, George Clinton and the Parliament Funkedelic, The Boys Choir of Harlem, Paul Winter Consort, Vernon Reid, Henry Rollins, Blondie, Dionne Warwick, D’Angelo, Berlin’s Rundfunk Symphony, Vienna’s Tonkuntsler Symphony, the Leipzig Symphony, and many more. He has also been a member of Charles Gayle’s band and part of Steve Coleman’s Five Elements.

These influences, and more, are readily apparent on Wimberly’s first album as a leader in over two decades, Afrofuturism (Temple Mountain Records, 2021). On the album, he explores the middle ground between funk and West African music while joined by collaborators from around the globe including koraist Foday Musa Suso and vocalists Joss Stone and Gary Pinto. The album has a genre listing of “Pop/R&B/Afrobeat/Neo-Soul/Rock/Contemporary Jazz.”

Given his background, there is much to discuss with Professor Wimberly, necessitating a two part interview. This entry focuses on the creation of Afrofuturism while the next will emphasize the album’s concept, the artist’s influences, and his role as an educator.


PostGenre: What was your inspiration for Afrofuturism? What is the story behind the album?

Michael Wimberly: Well, I wear several hats and have explored many avenues in music. Some people can focus on just one genre, make that work for them, and become really great at it. But I’ve been following a different path, exploring composing and playing for theater, film, and contemporary dance. 

Originally, I wanted to be a film composer in California. I felt like I could make it out there. But after my graduate studies at the Manhattan School of Music, I established myself in New York. At the time, I was not mentally prepared to make that jump to the West Coast without any real footing. Instead, I kept expanding my musical experience by playing with dance companies and working with choreographers. 

I still wanted to make music for film, but I found creating music to support the emotions of a dance piece was almost like scoring a film. I have played for a lot of dance classes, and it was through this process of making  music that I have been able to develop my compositions and rhythms. The inspiration for the music for Afrofuturism comes from my love of dance and all of the cultural content that I’ve been exposed to. 

PG: There is even a YouTube video of you playing a conch shell 

MW: Right, right? I mean that came about when I joined the Forces of Nature Dance company. The choreographer, Abdel Salaam, asked me to play the conch for a ballet he made honoring the vodou priestess, Marie Laveux. At first I questioned the idea- “What? Where am I gonna get that from?” But yeah, I ended up playing conch for that show, and continue to play it to this day. I had reached out early on with the conch to the trombonist Steve Turre who also plays it. I asked Steve how to play it and his response was simply “just pucker your lips and blow.” [Laughing] I could not believe that was all he told me. I was like “what, you’re not gonna impart some like divine musical knowledge on this?” But you know, he was right. 

And during that time – the late 1980s and early 1990s,  I was learning sound design and the music technology of the period. I was still chasing films and going to film festivals. I landed a couple films and a few pilots that never got off the ground. But it was still about the process. That and racking up a lot of recording time with other people. I’ve had the pleasure of working with several improvisers who have been really innovative and contributed significantly to the art form. I was invited into the bands of Charles Gayle and Steve Coleman and recorded and  performed with them.  Through those experiences with improvisation, my musical processes were stretched. I’ve always enjoyed improvisation, but I never thought of myself as an improviser or a really strong soloist.. I mean that aspect of music always scared me quite frankly. 

It was with this backdrop and during this time period – around 1990 or 1992 – that I wrote the song “Revolution” while playing with bassist Larry Goldman in a duo group called Love Machine on a Sci-fi tip. 

The music sat for some years as I was busy with other projects. And towards the end of 2017, I hooked up with my buddy Mike Meurin-who ended up co-producing the album with me. Among other things, Mike has an engineering background and used to work at Sony. Mike and I were hanging out in Cuba for three weeks, just drinking rum and listening to a lot of live music. We ended up sort of stumbling upon Egrem Studios. I wasn’t too familiar with the studio at the time but they made some legendary recordings including Buena Vista Social Club produced by Ry Cooder. Long story short, the studio was closed but we were given VIP treatment and allowed to tour it. The place was amazing. It was a giant recording studio and had this special feeling like the ghosts of those who recorded there were still there and trying to talk to us, you know?

But on the lower floor of the studio building was a little cafe where musicians would perform. We were invited to watch the artists perform there. In the cafe we were again given the VIP treatment. And the band there was killing. Just beautiful danceable music. A bunch of people there thought I was some big American producer or something and kept giving me their CDs. I was like man, I can’t promise anything. [laughing].  But during that time, we listened to a lot of music, including mine. And at that time, I decided I needed to go back into the studio. Mike said he’d love to be a part of the project and produce it with me. He also ended up mixing the album. 

In building the album, I brought in an amazing drummer and friend named Jonathan Joseph.  Jonathan has played with Weather Report, Jeff Beck – I saw him with Jeff Beck- and Jethro Tull. I’m a drum set player but am mostly playing keyboards and djembe on the album so it made sense to bring another drummer in. And we became good friends. He came up to New York and crashed at my apartment a couple of times. 

But as far as inspiration, most of the music from this collection does not fall in your typical verse, verse, chorus type of thing. And I’m happy about that. At the center of it are ancient rhythms and melodies out of West Africa and Mozambique that have inspired influence. That and some of the songs from my own background. Being out of Cleveland and inspired by, you know, just the funk and R&B era, everybody from Curtis Mayfield to James Brown to Hendrix to Parliament Funkadelic. I had the pleasure of playing with Funkadelic in Cleveland once. I didn’t tour or anything like that but I did play with them. And I recorded percussion on D’Angelo’s remake of Smokey Robinson’s “Crusin”, and I’ve had the pleasure of working with many jazz vocalists and musicians over the years, so  I think all of that is in the album. 

One of the groups that I most resonate with is the Art Ensemble of Chicago. One of their projects, “Ancient to the Future,” shows a concept that particularly speaks to me, that of finding ways to bring ancient culture and music into the current era. When you listen to classical music from around the world or folkloric music, a lot of it is very old but still very funky. It has been around for, you know, hundreds of years and the rhythm is so magical and logical and there’s a groove to it. That was really the unifying concept behind Afrofuturism. Something that has a groove and isn’t just energy music or improvisation – as beautiful as that can be – but music that has that sort of construction to it. That was really the impetus for me going into the studio and pulling together these songs and musicians for this project.  

PG: Which I think goes perfectly into Foday Musa Suso’s inclusion on the album. How did Foday get involved with the project?

MW: I was working on another project with Phillip Glass’ son, Zach. Zach knew about my love of kora and kora music. He mentioned Foday and I was very excited. Next thing I know, Zach’s introducing me to Foday on the phone. And it turned out that when Foday comes to New York, he stays at the Glass’ House. Foday and I started up a relationship and then we decided to work on the album together. I brought in three ideas and Jonathan and Foday expanded on them.  

PG: Most people wouldn’t likely associate the kora with a “funky” sound but it works really well on Afrofuturism.   

MW: [Laughing] Right. It works because Foday is funky. He’s funky. 

The kora has a great tradition. But I didn’t realize that as young children some kora players leave their family to go and live with masters of the instrument for a number of years. You’re emerged in this discipline and you become almost like a library, learning ancient songs, their meaning, and their history. So, kora players are stereotypically very cerebral in their approach. 

But that’s not necessarily how Foday is. You know how funk bass players – say Bootsy Collins – use their thumb to make a pop? He’s got that. He can pull a certain amount of energy out of the strings and make it funky and raise the level of the songs. I was enamored right away and built our songs around it in the sessions that followed.  

And there is a similar thing with Famaro Dioubate playing balafon on the album. We had him playing a couple of versions of the track, adding drum set to one and keeping the other traditional. Adding Gary Pinto out of Australia may be one of the “poppiest” things on the album but there is still a tinge of funk and old school rap. It’s a range and it’s risky too, but I’m hoping to find a new audience that can find something that lifts them; that elevates them. 

And the music is timeless because it’s live. On “Radio,” I use a synth and fender rhodes on a couple other tracks, but everything else is all live instruments. No samples or sequencing. I just wanted to go old school with that. 

PG: And what about Joss Stone? 

Actually, I didn’t originally foresee her inclusion on the album. We got a little lucky because the drummer is married to Joss’ mother. He had said to me that one track we had would be perfect for her and asked me if I would consider shaping the track for Joss. Of course I said yes and it turned out great.  

PG: Going a little back to your mention of Phillip Glass, you seem to be excited about his music but there isn’t anything overt on Afrofuturism which would seem to draw from his work. Would you say his music has influenced you?

MW: Contemporary music by people such as Phillip Glass, Steve Reich, or some of the minimalists – though they usually reject that term – have influenced me because of the electronic or repetitive aspects in their music  I would like to explore those ideas further in the next Afrofuturism release.

I am also influenced by country, especially older country music because it tells a story. Like the blues, country is a great storytelling form. One thing I think about is how I can become a better storyteller without being too abstract. I have learned storytelling from working with some great poets including Toni Morrison, Amiri Baraka, Maya Angelou, N’tozake Shange and Sonia Sanchez. I was in the right place at the right time. 

Going forward, I will work on trying to figure out how I can present the music live and keep it fresh. That is something I learned from Steve Coleman. People would come to see us expecting music from one album and we’d already be off presenting music that would be on the next one.  

PG: Since we are discussing many different sounds, what are your thoughts on genre in general? Afrofuturism lists its genre description as “Pop/R&B/Afrobeat/Neo-Soul/Rock/Contemporary Jazz.” Do you see genre limitations as a necessary evil of sorts or something imposed by the commercial side of business that should be resisted?

MW: That is a tough though good question. Ultimately, it is both. Genre labeling is a necessary evil needed to market or direct music and find your audience. I just want to play. Music wasn’t originally designed to be sold. When you look at music from India, Africa, or Asia, they may call their historical music “classical” or “folk” but there aren’t other labels. The same is also true with European classical music. Mozart, Hayden, Bethoven, Brahms. Were they thinking about “genre”? They had titles like sonatas or short forms or long forms and music differed based on the event it was played for, but other than that it wasn’t categorized the way it is today. Someone may rebut that and that’s fine. 

But in our current era we have identified and created genres so that music can be better packaged. Now, we have dance music which has lots of different titles to describe the style.

The specific identifiers on the album were picked when Mike Meurin and Jake Sanders at PR [Clandestine Label Services] said we needed to pick a few for the album. I guess “pop” means popular. That’s nice. But is Afrofuturism “pop”? I don’t think the album is Afrobeat when I think of what Fela [Kuti] did or how I play Afrobeat on a drum set. Those sorts of sounds are not on this album. But I could also see how the album could cross over to fans of those sounds. 

I don’t want to use identifiers but kind of have to. Genre labels are a necessary evil, at least until we are able to transcend it. Can we transcend that within this century? 

Afrofuturism is being released in three parts. Part 1 is now available on Temple Mountain Records. Part 2 will be available on January 22, 2021 and Part 3 on February 19, 2021. More information on Michael Wimberly can be found on his website.